Zoology and Locomotion

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  • Carl Valle
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    Carl Valle on #14973

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    coachformerlyknownas on #73720

    What was the sequence top before bottom clip or vise versa?

    Top clip looks a bit better, but the pelvis is sort of a “Tilt-a-Whirl”

    Knowing you, by spring he’ll be 14.6????

    Carl Valle
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    Carl Valle on #73725

    The same clip but different speeds.

    I am going to talk about video and share change over time….

    https://www.globalathletics.com/rltac/2008-01-05/

    take a look at section 2 of the boys 55m hurdles first round.

    That was last year before I worked with him.

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    coachformerlyknownas on #73738

    The same clip but different speeds.
    I am going to talk about video and share change over time….
    https://www.globalathletics.com/rltac/2008-01-05/
    take a look at section 2 of the boys 55m hurdles first round.
    That was last year before I worked with him.

    If not already, maybe single hurdle repeats to improve his TO? He looks a little planty? (but the angle is not a good one given my mediocre HH observation skills)

    What are you cue-ing as far as his posture between hurdles? And what were his indoor/outdoor times last spring?

    Hope kid is paying for your help.

    Carl Valle
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    Carl Valle on #73742

    [quote author="Carl Valle" date="1225160082"]The same clip but different speeds.
    I am going to talk about video and share change over time….
    https://www.globalathletics.com/rltac/2008-01-05/
    take a look at section 2 of the boys 55m hurdles first round.
    That was last year before I worked with him.

    If not already, maybe single hurdle repeats to improve his TO? He looks a little planty? (but the angle is not a good one given my mediocre HH observation skills)

    What are you cue-ing as far as his posture between hurdles? And what were his indoor/outdoor times last spring?

    Hope kid is paying for your help.[/quote]

    I am cuing fitness to enable him to do more reps. Seriously. He is planty (good word) as the athlete is using the feedback on the landing too much as a guide instead of letting a rhythmic timing pattern to overide his confidence level. I think he needs more reps but doing it over one hurdle (we have done) seems to work well but he needs to create a rhythm first and learn to stay on beat. I don’t have a true correct answer. The previous video is fro the side so it may help you judge his take off.

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    Dave Hegland on #73744

    How much fitness is general, and how much specific? Extensive tempo and circuit or back and forths? I assume both, but in what ratio?

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    coachformerlyknownas on #73745

    I am cuing fitness to enable him to do more reps. Seriously. He is planty (good word) as the athlete is using the feedback on the landing too much as a guide instead of letting a rhythmic timing pattern to overide his confidence level. I think he needs more reps but doing it over one hurdle (we have done) seems to work well but he needs to create a rhythm first and learn to stay on beat. I don’t have a true correct answer. The previous video is from the side so it may help you judge his take off.

    I see him placing/planting more than running over the last step, pre-barrier.
    Tough skill aquisition (the “cut step” from your previous post) Bigger fish to fry first.

    How do you feel about his posture/pelvic orientation? Looks as though somewhere in past he was cued to stay down on top and kid-compensation was to stay forward to stay down?

    Kid runs more strong than fast? If you closed your eyes what do his foot contacts sound like? any difference on each #3?
    “More strong than fast” is why I asked about speed/neural work away from the sticks… Maybe 2% downhill grass while coach focuses on posture and not overstriding (although the time of year for that is running out)

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    RussZHC on #73749

    CFKA’s “tilt-a-whirl” comment about the hips IMO is important for sure but I am not sure if first.

    To me somewhere in the past he has been coached about getting into a “hurdler’s tuck” which is not necessarily bad but to my eyes he has taken it to the “extreme” in that he is wanting to tuck so much it is a bit unnatural, happening before it really needs to and sort of on its own instead of being a smooth part of the entire action; it may also be that the action of planting his foot on take-off triggers the tuck so he could be focusing on that plant instead of just running through.

    IMO that is also reflected a bit in the arms, which have improved quite a bit compared to the older video (globalathletics) where they were flung in a wider path (feeling a need for balance?) but both still hesitate IMO a bit more than necessary (but this too could be connected to the tucking action…he “knows” all of this is to happen at once which may not be entirely true) as an instructor at a clinic once told us, don’t make the barrier any bigger than it is, it’s 1/2″ not 2 feet wide (hesitation adds to flight time). Relating the arm action to the “tilt-a-whirl”, could it be if the arm action from the shoulders is too “violent”, the Serappie (sp?) Effect comes into play as the hips move to counter-act the shoulder action? Hence the hips…

    I think you are very much on the right path in increasing the reps over multiple flights and if the hurdles are at spec (I can not quite see where they are in relation to marks on the track) I would move them in a bit (12″ to 18″) and encourage “running” as opposed to hurdling.

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    Dave Hegland on #73756

    Does look like hurdles are jammed up. Can see marks on track in front clip. To me, he is getting into a decent rhthym for someone of his caliber. 1.10-1.20 RU’s. Not sure what previous PR’s have been. Looks like Carl has placed tennis balls at the desired takeoff point. Would be interested to hear what that distance is.

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    coachformerlyknownas on #70767

    CFKA’s “tilt-a-whirl” comment about the hips IMO is important for sure but I am not sure if first.

    To me somewhere in the past he has been coached about getting into a “hurdler’s tuck” which is not necessarily bad but to my eyes he has taken it to the “extreme” in that he is wanting to tuck so much it is a bit unnatural, happening before it really needs to and sort of on its own instead of being a smooth part of the entire action; it may also be that the action of planting his foot on take-off triggers the tuck so he could be focusing on that plant instead of just running through.

    Arent we talking about the same things? Your “somewhere in the past he has been coached about getting into a “hurdler’s tuck” my “somewhere in past he was cued to stay down”
    Your “planting his foot at takeoff” my “looks planty”

    Not so sure about planty TO foot triggering a tuck, you’ll have to help me with what you are thinking there.

    Arms counter balance in flight, the extent / extreme? of which being directly related to the action of the opposing leg, so a which came first, chicken or egg view. The effort to counteract with arms is to get him back on schedule cause he knows he’s not where he needs to be for the coming landing. My term “Tilt-a-Whirl” may be more scientificly stated as “disharmonic pelvic oscellation’s detrimental effect on the arm/leg relationship?

    But I’m not a hurdle guy and could be making most of this up. : )

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    Todd Lane on #73773

    Carl thanks for your thought provoking blogs.
    i would be curious to see a sagittal view of acceleration.
    I’ve always felt in the hurdles, as with most events, the first 4 steps have cause/affect relationship on top of hurdle.

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    Chad Williams on #73782

    Carl thanks for your thought provoking blogs.
    i would be curious to see a sagittal view of acceleration.
    I’ve always felt in the hurdles, as with most events, the first 4 steps have cause/affect relationship on top of hurdle.

    Mr. Lane, glad to see you posting again. Are we going to be blessed with a blog of your own soon?

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    RussZHC on #73784

    CFKA: sorry about repeating, my intention was to use what you had said as an agreed upon example and restated so that I was sure we were talking about the same details

    CFKA: I am not a neurologist or even that well versed in functioning of the CNS but my comments about the plant at TO and the hurdlers’ tuck were my interpretation of what the athlete may be thinking, in this case that the TO plant and the tuck happen at the same time and with the same severity (though neither may necessarily need be the case)so he has linked one action directly to the other though there may in fact be a needed separation or different degree of severity between the two…the other thing is, again just my interpretation, there maybe a subconscious/involuntary amplifying of one action related to the other action

    Zoology and Locomotion II: CV refers to the “tuck” I mentioned in my previous response, and while his comments are entirely valid, IMO, the tuck I referred to originally was not the heel tuck

    As, to me, a lot of hurdle work uses somewhat personalized lingo, just out of curiosity, how would others out there interpret the following statement:

    “All knees are trail knees.” [A statement from a coaching clinic, that is, shall we say, somewhat open to interpretation.]

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    Daniel Andrews on #73783

    As, to me, a lot of hurdle work uses somewhat personalized lingo, just out of curiosity, how would others out there interpret the following statement:

    “All knees are trail knees.” [A statement from a coaching clinic, that is, shall we say, somewhat open to interpretation.]

    I think this statement tends to come from the standpoint of what to cue. If you cue knees in a hurdling activity it has to be the trail leg. It’s pointless and counterproductive to cue the lead leg knee. You attack the hurdle with the lead leg by cueing “attack/lead with the foot” and not the knee.

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    Dave Hegland on #73803

    the other thing is, again just my interpretation, there maybe a subconscious/involuntary amplifying of one action related to the other action

    Agreed. Possible low level fear of the hurdle, in my opinion. Block with the foot, block with the shoulders. A brief “cower” position, for lack of a better term.

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