What kind of stretch is appropriate?

Posted In: The Classics

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    Todd Lane on #24989

    Mike makes a good point, in that the properties which are altered from a stretch are the same ones that what make power athletes successful.

    The duration could be the biggest component. I believe somewhere in the 6 second range of a stretch is where inhibition is achieved. This may explain why AIS can be utilized with its shorter holds.

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #24990

    We are interviewing AIS founder Arron Mattes on the Friday Five…..

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #24991

    Here's the abstract I mentioned previously. While the stretch holds were quite long and were repeated 4 times, the total amount of stretching actually isn't out of the ordinary given the fact that only three stretches were used.

    ACUTE EFFECTS OF PASSIVE MUSCLE STRETCHING ON SPRINT PERFORMANCE

    A.G. Nelson, N. Driscoll, D. Landin, B. Marcello, M. Young, & I. Schexnayder

    Louisiana State University, Dept of Kinesiology, Baton Rouge, LA

    Previous research has shown that passive muscle stretching can diminish the peak force output of subsequent maximal isometric and concentric contractions. The purpose of the present study was to establish whether the deleterious effects of passive stretching seen in laboratory settings would be manifest in an actual performance setting. Sixteen members (11 males, 5 females) of a Division I NCAA track team performed electronically timed 20m sprints with and without prior stretching of the hip and knee muscles. The sprint testing was done as part of each athlete's Monday work-out program. Four different stretch protocols were used with each protocol done on a different day. Hence, the testing occurred over four weeks. The four stretching protocols were no-stretch of either leg (NS), both legs stretched (BS), forward leg in the starting position stretched (FS), rear leg in the starting position stretched (RS). Three stretching exercises (hamstring stretch, quadriceps stretch, calf stretch) were used for BS, FS, and RS. Each stretching exercise was done four times, and each time the stretch was maintained for 30 s. BS, FS, and RS all induced a significant (p<0.05) increase (~0.04 s) in the 20m time. Thus, it appears that pre-event stretching might negatively impact the performance of high power skills.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #24992

    How much pressure and what gap of time was there?

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #24993

    Carl-
    Pressure: Athletes were stretched to the end of their normal range of movement. All movements were within the "comfort zone."

    Time interval: The time between the stretching and the running was between 5-10 minutes and they weren't allowed to do anything in between.

    Obviously, what you're advocating is different than this protocol but the study at least gives evidence that static stretching can hinder sprinting performance if done with this type (which is pretty standard for many schools) of protocol.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #24994

    First thanks for the study, it is key that researchers and elite coaches work together….PE students are not the same!

    It would be nice to have a "stretching tolerance test) like a glucose test in blood chemistry.

    Intervals of block minutes from 1-5-10-20-30-40-60 would be a nice way to evaluate the timing of the effects. This can create a negative window for stretching, similar to the post workout drink window after training…..

    Did the athletes warm-up before the stretches? great study by the way.

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    Todd Lane on #24995

    Carl-

    Another study which somewhat comes closer to your questions/thoughts.

    "Effects of running, static stretching and practice jumps on explosive force production and jumping performance."

    Journal of Sports Med Phy Fitness 2003; 43:21-27.
    I'm direct quoting abstract.

    Did warmups of
    1) Control 2) 4 min run 3) Static Stretch 4) Run + Stretch 5) Run + Stretch + Practice Jumps

    2 min rest then concentric and drop jump performed.

    Results: Generally stretch produced lowest values. Run & Run + Stretch + Jump produced highest values of explosive force production.

    Run produced sign. better in drop jump height, concentric jump height, and peak concentric than run + stretch.

    Sometime in next 3 months, I'm hoping to complete study similar to Mike's, but will use different warm up flexibility treatments.

    Look forward to Mattes interview. What about those crazy Wharton's? They certainly have profited off of AIS.

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #24996

    The father and son combo?…no comment.

    I am still not seeing anthing contradictive of the training of elite sprinters with good coaches…..but a lot of talented runners at MAJOR DIV I programs stretch and sprint….no warm-up.

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    Derrick Brito on #24997

    this stuff is interesting, but…im not quite understanding the implications for training. i want to know how to incorporate flexibility training into my schedule. i think i was mislead about the extent to which stretching diminishes power. when i was reading it seemed like more flexibility=less power. which is something i didnt exactly want to trade off. i wanted to know what days to stretch, when to stretch, type of stretch etc. i wasnt concerned about meets and stuff yet.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #24998

    The potential detrimental effects of stretching on power output are not limited to competitive efforts only. I think they could extend to any form of high power output movement regardless of whether it was competitive effort or not. Despite this, I have several reasons why I suggest some form of flexiblity or mobility movement every day:

    1. It's a good atmosophere for team building and socialization.

    2. Many kids have grown up believing they HAVE to do some form of flexibility or mobility training before working out and doing it eases their minds as well as lends more credibility (in their minds) to what you're doing.

    3. Mobility is important, especially in those individuals who have inadequate mobility in particular areas. In these cases, I tend to think mobility training can actually be very beneficial if done correctly.

    4. It extends and increases the workload placed on an athlete and in some ways could be thought of as a general fitness component of the workout. This is especially true in the cases of PNF stretching and specific yoga poses.

    5. When used post-workout, stretching and mobility can be very relaxing if done correctly and may actually enhance recovery.

    6. Flexibility and mobility training helps to maintain healthy range of motion. As such it will be important to maintain the mobility of individuals who tend to easily become tight when mobilty training is eliminated. Note however, that I said healthy range of motion and not extreme range of motion. The latter could be quite harmful in my opinion.

    7. Research indicates the detrimental effects of static stretching are definitely acute but the literarure on whether the effect is longer lasting is inclusive at best. As such, I think when performance is not as important (as is the case in a practice) the potential benefits mentioned above may outweigh the potential short-term detriments.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Derrick Brito on #24999

    ok, so some type of stretching everyday… do you suggest PNF over static then? and what if you were stretching after practice as a sort of relaxation thing? would static types be good then? also, if stretching decreased power output, would that have an effect on your bodys reaction to the training? thanks for the info so far.

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    Danny Tutskey on #25000

    The type of warm I have used is
    800m jog
    static stretch
    dynamic stretching (prisoner squats, highland fling, front lunge, side lunge, and speed skaters)
    I would do a 50m accel in between each dyanamic movement
    I would go through speed drills
    PNF
    Race.

    Would it be better for me to throw out hte static stretch and do PNF there instead then go about my warm up and not do the PNF just before I would race? Any thoughts?

    So it would look liek this
    800m jog
    PNF
    dynamic stretching (prisoner squats, highland fling, front lunge, side lunge, and speed skaters)
    I would do a 50m accel in between each dyanamic movement
    I would go through speed drills

    Any thoughts?

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    jumpscoachmike on #25001

    DT-

    You don't have to completely throw out the static stretch. Perform those stretches after your workout after a good cooldown. Stick with your PNF, dynamics as your pre-workout/pre-comp. warm-up.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #25002

    Research indicates that PNF (at least if performed in the traditional fashion) has the greatest detrimental effect on power output. Keep this in mind if you do traditional PNF.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Danny Tutskey on #25003

    Wouldn't it more so deal with the amount of force your using when you are contracting/resisting? I don't push hard at all, more like 20%.

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