The Great Youth Sports Training Con

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  • Vern Gambetta
    Participant
    Vern Gambetta on #14632

    Parents are lining up right this moment to find the training program that will assure that Johnny or Susie will get faster or stronger so he or she will get that athletic scholarship. Pardon my cynicism but parents are being ripped off. They are paying personals trainer up $50.00 to $100 an hour. Do the math at 3 hours per week times four weeks that works out to be $1200 a month. Let pretend they

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    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #70388

    and if they do have talent?

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    Participant
    Daniel Andrews on #70392

    Define talent???

    With some certainty I can evaluate an athlete for a couple of months and figure out their hep and decat scores if they wanted to compete in the summertime and I can pretty much predict were an athlete will stand in their jump marks or the times they will run depending on they meet certain criteria in training/testing during the season. However, I don’t know of any coaches (including myself) who are close to being 50% accurate on telling a developing athlete how good they will be in the next season, let alone 2 or more seasons down the line. The eastern bloc countries tried this for nearly 40 years and only succeeded when they doped at the team level. What information the eastern bloc countries never made public was their attrition rates at their institutes of physical education, which were quite high and the influx of newer children as they become older, bigger, stronger, and faster to replace those who washed out. but at the youngest ages weren’t able to gain entrance to these prestigious institutes.

    For an elite athlete I think we can make more accurate assumptions about performance in following 2-3 years, but beyond that nothing is certain.

    Vern’s absolutely correct on this.

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    star61 on #70417

    Define talent???

    With some certainty I can evaluate an athlete for a couple of months and figure out their hep and decat scores if they wanted to compete in the summertime and I can pretty much predict were an athlete will stand in their jump marks or the times they will run depending on they meet certain criteria in training/testing during the season. However, I don’t know of any coaches (including myself) who are close to being 50% accurate on telling a developing athlete how good they will be in the next season, let alone 2 or more seasons down the line. The eastern bloc countries tried this for nearly 40 years and only succeeded when they doped at the team level. What information the eastern bloc countries never made public was their attrition rates at their institutes of physical education, which were quite high and the influx of newer children as they become older, bigger, stronger, and faster to replace those who washed out. but at the youngest ages weren’t able to gain entrance to these prestigious institutes.

    For an elite athlete I think we can make more accurate assumptions about performance in following 2-3 years, but beyond that nothing is certain.

    Vern’s absolutely correct on this.

    I respect the opinions of the previous posters, and would certainly yield on most issues to Mr. Gambetta, however I would like to give you a perspective from a parent who has paid for such training. Where we live, a fairly affluent suburb of Dallas, it common practice for kids to receive training in at least one sport from a professional trainer. I could give you dozens of specifc examples of several kids I know personally where such training has made the difference, but let me instead take you through a sequence of events that is very typical. First, a kid shows an interest in a sport as a 5th or 6th grader. Because the high school and even middle school teams are so competitive, (i.e., 100 boys trying out for the 8th grade basketball team) the parents decide to get their child involved with a select (as opposed to recreational) summer team. The child doesn’t have the skills to make the select team, but through one-on-one training, or small group training, the kid is able to advance enough to make the select team the very next season. Even if at that time the one-on-one coaching is discontinued, the kid sometimes becomes a star player on the local select team, but after a year or two at that level, still can’t quite catch on with one of the larger, year round, metro select teams. Since it seems that all of the high school players in almost every sport play on very high level metro select teams nearly year round, it seems necessary to progress the kid on to one of these better teams where they can experience higher level coaching and competition. So once again the kid utilizes one-on-one coaching, sometimes with two or more coaches throughout the week who focus on different aspects of the specific sport, and the kid is able to progress to better and better select teams until he is on one of the top metro select teams. He then makes the high school team, continues playing on the select team, and receives a full ride to a D1 or D2 university, or competes successfully at a highly prestitgious D3 school. The kid isn’t the biggest or the fastest, but he is generally in much better sports specific shape and has much better than average sport specific skills. This is not a ficticious story, but one that I have seen repeated dozens of times in my small community. My daughter graduated in 2002, my second daughter graduated this week, and my youngest son will be a freshman in high school, and in almost every sport, the kids getting the focused, professional training, whether its baseball, basketball, volleyball, track and field, hockey, or soccer, are the ones that are most successful. Football seems to be an exception, but even most of those kids go to Velocity, which is a fast twitch type of training. I’m not saying such training in any way guarantees such success, but in our community, those that do succeed past high school have benefited greatly from such training. While I know our community shares this phenomenom with other area suburban communities, it may not translate to more rural or urban communities, but even so I thought I would share my observations over the past 12-15 years with the forum.

    To give you an idea of how popular this type of training is in my area, I list below just a few of the facilities that are literally within 5-15 minutes of my home. I, and many of fellow parents, use all of these facilities on a regular basis. And these are just the very large, very local facilities.

    https://www.integratedathleticdevelopment.com/
    https://dallasbat.com/index.htm
    https://www.drpepperstarcenter.com/
    https://www.velocitysp.com/coppell

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    Participant
    Chad Williams on #70418

    There are certain sports, like baseball or golf, which are more skill oriented that I could see sending someone to a professional in the off season. I think Vern is talking about sending Johnny-can’t-walk-and-chew-gum to your nearest Velocity/High Performance/Elite Athlete training center and expecting an NBA/NFL/NHL contract. Most of the time, talent is recognized and the agencies/recruiters are calling the parents or the athlete, rather than the other way around.

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    Participant
    star61 on #70419

    There are certain sports, like baseball or golf, which are more skill oriented that I could see sending someone to a professional in the off season. I think Vern is talking about sending Johnny-can’t-walk-and-chew-gum to your nearest Velocity/High Performance/Elite Athlete training center and expecting an NBA/NFL/NHL contract. Most of the time, talent is recognized and the agencies/recruiters are calling the parents or the athlete, rather than the other way around.

    The large facilities, like those linked above, don’t recruit at all, unless they also have an in-house select team. Most don’t. What you refer to are the larger metro-wide select teams that do recruit the better players. But to get to that level very often requires the use of the facilities and one-on-one coaches discussed above. In fact, these larger facilities, along with dozens of respected coaches who work one-on-one with their kids, are a major recruiting conduit to the larger metro select teams.

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    Participant
    star61 on #70420

    Define talent???

    With some certainty I can evaluate an athlete for a couple of months and figure out their hep and decat scores if they wanted to compete in the summertime and I can pretty much predict were an athlete will stand in their jump marks or the times they will run depending on they meet certain criteria in training/testing during the season. However, I don’t know of any coaches (including myself) who are close to being 50% accurate on telling a developing athlete how good they will be in the next season, let alone 2 or more seasons down the line. The eastern bloc countries tried this for nearly 40 years and only succeeded when they doped at the team level. What information the eastern bloc countries never made public was their attrition rates at their institutes of physical education, which were quite high and the influx of newer children as they become older, bigger, stronger, and faster to replace those who washed out. but at the youngest ages weren’t able to gain entrance to these prestigious institutes.

    For an elite athlete I think we can make more accurate assumptions about performance in following 2-3 years, but beyond that nothing is certain.

    Vern’s absolutely correct on this.

    Not to continue beating a dead horse, but I think those interested in this issue might be interested in the following article. One of the pinacle Dallas metro baseball teams is the Dallas Mustangs. Several of both daughters friends, including Jason Stokes, who still holds the Texas state record for the most home runs in a season, went through the progression I outlined in an earlier post and ended up on the Dallas Mustangs. Several went on to D1 scholarships, and a few, like Jason, played at least some pro ball. I think if you read between the lines, you can see that this type of training gives an advantage to those who can afford it. Is it fair? I can’t say, but it is effective.

    https://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/highschools/topstories/stories/072207dnspopowerplay.2a03039.html

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #70421

    i forgot i responded to this…

    define talent? Well, i dont think you have to be that scientific with it really…i taught a group of high school kids for their PE classes, once a week for about 10 weeks. We did track and field, basketball and football stuff. I could tell after a short time, like a week really who had athletic ability and talent for sports and who didnt. It isnt that hard. Predicting just how good they could be depends on so many factors so is harder to do…

    but, i started working with this one kid, outside of the class at night times, maybe 2-3 times a week, becuase he showed ability in the long jump and wanted to do it…Turned out he became very very good and did get a college scholarship…i am not the sole reason for this i know that…but a little help, advice, and pushing work wonders for talented kids who have no or little direction…

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