Takeoff Mechanics in the Long Jump

Posted In: The Classics

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    Participant
    aivala on #79947

    [youtube]t2Y_LA7onjo[/youtube]

    FIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAVVVVVVVAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAA can you translatE!!!!!! ppplllllease? 🙂

    His coach says he is running faster than ever (in leichtathletik.de it was said he was running 10.6 m/s in the NC), that he hadn’t done many jumps in practice but that he was jumping really comfortable over 8m, he had something extra in the tank.
    Bayer says the runway was built over woods, so that it was interesting to run in it. The track was a Mondo, the same one as in Beijing. He also says the spanish federative president had obvious interest in preserving Lamelas ER when he said his jump was “not real”.

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    Participant
    sizerp on #79951

    I’m confused…do you mean his foot is turning outwards on his penultimate? I can totally see that, very drastic as well…

    but i don’t see what you see…

    I am talking about what happens to his right foot at 1:12 in this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRJzYQ_4HFg

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    Participant
    aivala on #79956

    I am talking about what happens to his right foot at 1:12 in this video:

    [youtube]nRJzYQ_4HFg[/youtube]

    It happens when you push forwards and pronate simultaneously, it’s not groin nor knee friendly (and more if you have spikes on). It kinda looks like a javelin twist.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #79959

    Did he say 8 meters was easy in training?

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    Participant
    aivala on #79963

    No, they just said he had lot’s of reserves while jumping in competition and that they had analysed jumps many times to come to that conclussion.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #79965

    oh ok thanks..i knew he was running 10.6 m/s…totally called it

    the GB guy was running 11.1 m/s and jumped 8.00m.

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    Participant
    Floppel on #79967

    His goals for 2009 are to qualify for the world championships (8.15m) and to be one of the top 3 German long jumpers.
    Good to see he’s staying modest. Also, his coach said that he believes that Sebastian can jump even farther, but it sounded like he’s aware that this will most likely not happen in the near future.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #81496

    From here

    If I’m understanding the description correctly, I’m actually from the ‘passive’ school of thought on the LJ takeoff as this was what I was taught from some of the most successful jumps coaches in history. While I don’t really like reach and pull takeoffs, Nick likes to think very active takeoff. I rarely see him do it to the point where the movement outcome is something I’d consider a red flag so I don’t really address it. Basically, if it’s not a problem don’t worry about it. Nick has an internal cueing system that works for him that externally produces the movement pattern that I like and the fact that I don’t like the thought process he’s using to achieve it is irrelevant in my mind.

    One thing I think that we do agree on is that there’s a fine line of attacking the last couple steps for Nick. When it’s too passive you get jumps like he had at UK indoor trials where the run is pretty and nice but he’s not bringing any heat. When it’s too aggressive you see other problems like you see in what he did in the slow mo video (hunkers down, runs squatty, sticks the foot way out, etc). In general, I think Nick jumps better when he’s on the more aggressive side of that continuum. This is contrary to how I normally teach the approach run, where I like to see big effort through the first 20-25m or so and then just have the athlete run tall, relaxed and bouncy. With Nick, he is naturally a big front side, bouncy runner so it seems to help if he’s just a hair more on the aggressive / attack side then I have any of my other jumpers do.

    I don’t see this passive take off with Walter when he long jumps or when Moffit was at his best. I assume your talking about Boo who taught you about this?

    Can you explain your thoughts on the passive take off a little more.

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    Participant
    sizerp on #82439

    Found an interesting study relevant to the topic:

    Immediate effects of the use of modified take-off boards on the take-off motion of the long jump during training.

    It would be great if someone could get the full text.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #82494

    Found an interesting study relevant to the topic:

    [url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16939149]Immediate effects of the use of modified take-off boards on the take-off motion of the long jump during training.[/url]

    It would be great if someone could get the full text.

    I’m sure I can get it. I am an invited editor for the journal. I’m guessing I can have it within next couple days. The article is interesting because the ramp inclination is MUCH less than what is commercially available. The 2.5 degree incline would be barely visible. I’m not a big fan of the typical boxes and ramps used for this type of thing in the long jump but they would seem to be an altogether different animal than those used in this study.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #82496

    I don’t see this passive take off with Walter when he long jumps or when Moffit was at his best. I assume your talking about Boo who taught you about this?

    Can you explain your thoughts on the passive take off a little more.

    I mean that we don’t want to see a takeoff with a big stomp or active raking or clawing back prior to touchdown. Also foot placements >18-24 inches (depending on size of athlete) forward of COM should be avoided. Following takeoff the body must move actively over the foot through extension of the hip, knee, and ankle but these actions are often established by the dynamics of the run in the final steps.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #91843

    I was reading something today and it sparked me to think back to what i had wrote during this thread…

    It was always my belief (and still is) that the correct take off action is one where the athletes take off leg is placed well in front and his CM and one which actively sweeps back upon contact…

    So, in research study and also review of other studies,

    Lees, A., Graham-Smith, P., and Fowler, N (1991). Analysis of Men’s long jump. Journal of Applied Biomachanics, (1): 61-78.

    I’ll highlight main points to do with what i was saying. Through studies looking at elite long jumpers from 88 Olympics, 87 World Champs, 91 World Student Games and some others it was observed that,

    * The take off leg was placed far ahead of the CM becuase a) enabling an increase in time period during which vertical impulse can be generated, b) increasing the range of movement through which hip entensor muscles may work, and c) placing the leg in a position to enable it to be stretched and store elastic energy.

    Koh and Hay 1990 also found that all of the elite subjects they studied demonstrated an active pull back during take off. The best pull back motions were with a straight take off leg and not through the bending of the knee. The better elite jumpers show a faster backwards sweep of the take off leg than the lesser elite and therefore showed a minimal effect of breaking at take off.

    They state the most important aspect of the take off is leg stiffness throughout the plant, pull back and pivot.

    They also state the obvious (but someone argued with me about this) that there is “clearly” a trade off between horizontal velocity and take off angle and vertical velocity.

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    Participant
    J Kilgore on #91844

    Nick,

    Can you please post a link to the study?

    Define far…

    The take off leg was placed far ahead of the CM becuase a) enabling an increase in time period during which vertical impulse can be generated, b) increasing the range of movement through which hip entensor muscles may work, and c) placing the leg in a position to enable it to be stretched and store elastic energy.

    Because in a study where they are looking at inches and the foot is 18 inches in front, I would guess that that is considered “far” in front. After listening to one of Boo’s video from the athleticscanada page, it makes me think of the point he brings up in that you want to tell and teach to put it down under your hips…but that’s not what you are going to see.

    How did they determine the pull back?

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #91845

    I don’t have a link…just a hard copy of the journal.

    The actual term they used was “well ahead of CM”.

    I believe, from reading the stats…that the average distance ahead of CM at plant was 45cm with a SD of 10cm.

    The pull back refers to the sweeping back motion of the take off right before AND throughout plant and take off.

    I find it strange that a coach like Boo would say under the hips…for a triple jump take off i can understand it but LJ, no way…

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #92485

    Something else related to take off which i wanted others thoughts on…

    One of my main problem with take off is not having full control over my free leg…i want it to go straight forward with my free leg foot up and forward as well…

    However, it comes across my body very often and my foot even more so points inward during take off.

    I realise that I don’t consciously control it though, I just let it swing out. Do you think the free leg should be controlled on purpose, ie the foot tensed with all related muscles contracting during take off?

    I’m just talking about the free leg here…

    Thanks

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