Sprint Drills

Posted In: The Classics

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    vanilla-ice on #21358

    For those in the know…the wizard was just what? Smoke. Pull away the stage curtains and we have not the wizard, but the ghost refering to the mistakes in technique. Magico and Fluke….perhaps your enligtening experiences at the USATF school can help us. The new drive phase information was great….and when you have a problem with technique what do you do again?

    "One example is lordosis, this abnormal spine postioin will most likely cause knee lift to suffer…screaming doesn't help, therapy/loading/and training will improve it…(my quote)"

    I agree…strength works. What if it isn't the three above?

    like I said before…

    enough words…post video..I will be right…or wrong. Let the tape tell the tale.

    fluke on #21359

    i haven't been on the board in a while but this thread has gotten pretty funny. i think i would have received more "enlightenment" if i went to the waffle house with all of you.

    anyway, does anyone have any footage they want to post? i would love to hear opinions and actual breakdowns of technique from the video.

    vanilla – shouldn't it be Carl Armando "Vinci" Francis Xavier Valle now?

    vanilla-ice on #21360

    Fluke….if you had a problem with sprint technique (if it exists) what should you do? What were you told at the USATF school? More Ghosts in the closet?:lol:

    Todd Lane on #21361

    Vanilla.. i take it you work with mr brokenburr.
    could you elaborate on your work with him-

    how long have you worked with him?

    what are things you specifically have targeted with him? what was areas was he weak in? what is progression you have used in addressing weaknesses?
    what are areas you are currently work on with him?

    i saw part of some t.v. show last year i think where vanilla boxed different strokes dude. vanilla's conditioning was poor, very poor.

    my wife says i don't have to worry about "behind keyboard length", i would lose she says.

    vanilla-ice on #21362

    Todd, I did work with Mr.Brokenburr for a year…I had some impressive help from world class massage therapists, a great strength coach (who is now a priest!) and a performance coach named Mark Williams who is in Raliegh.

    I found that now living in Boston having him fly to Boston…or me flying to RDU was not the best circumstances. He did have GW monitor the loads I prescribed, and my video analysis was not like Mikes, but I felt he was very sound.

    I found his strength out of the track to be average. Weakness? Our pathetic budget. I am of the belief that you need 50,000 to be world class. Nothing stands out he seemed to have all the things except his age was creeping up.

    My mistakes on loading and CNS fatigue were rather obvious since I think you need about 10 years before you can see it. I came from a swimming background so all I know is two hours of laps at different speeds.

    His technique was a blessing, but I felt that his recovery off the track was the most important. We had to use the watermassage station at the crabtree mall (it rocks by the way, but nothing replaces hands) and my week skills.

    Weight training was a lot of STE work for a month then we started doing cluster work and other things to get him stronger. His squat went 35 pounds higher then his previous best, but the core work he liked the best.

    Some of the things I would have done better was add more AIS stretching longer Speed endurance runs, and lowered the volumes. Things then get weird later at higher speed. He was a good father and a great person to work with. Too bad I don't have a 100k some other job that had a schedule to work with him 6 hours a day.

    Mike Young
    Mike Young on #21363

    [i]Originally posted by 2belite[/i]
    Mike, I was not talking about the B skip, we were talking about the same drill. I still feel it's not a good drill, but I guess we can agree to disagree.

    I wasn't specifically referring to the B skip either. Like I said before, I don't necessarily think it's a great or even necessary drill. It may in fact have no effect or be even harmful to sprint mechanics if done poorly. I will however, stand by the fact that if the thigh is accelerated downwards with any kind of substantial force, the knee will passively open to an extent directly proportional to the tension on the hamstrings. This itself is not really debatable….unless your athletes have different muscle attachment sites than mine :spin:.

    I am a big believer that everything happens off the ground (knee-lift is a product of force application) and that front side mechanics does not need to be coached(it's reflexive).

    I too am a firm believer that sprint speed is primarily a result of what happens on the ground. And while I'm not a big believer in coaching turnover for that very reason, I do think that swing phase mechanics do need to be coached in many athletes. The reason is this, the actions that occur during swing phase directly influence the position and timing of foot contact, which in turn directly influences force production (i.e. "what happens off the ground" ;)). Consequently, we can't look at the two separately without getting into a chicken-or-the-egg type circular argument. That is, it would be incorrect to say that we don't need to coach swing phase mechanics because they are simply a result of what happens off the ground for the very reason that what happens during swing phase partially determines what happens on the ground.

    Again, I'm not claiming that B drills are the ultimate drill or even a good drill. I'm just trying to make my points clear.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    2belite on #21364

    You have made yourself very clear and I agree with most of what you are saying. I do argee if the thigh is accelerated down with force the lower leg will unfold. However, I don't believe the time frame of the B drill allows the athlete to push his knees up aswell as accelerate them down. This is the reason I only use A runs, the athlete can focus on pushing the knees up off the ground. (in A skips and A march the pace is too slow to push the knees up so the athlete must lift them).
    I know some coaches may see this as no problem, John Smith for one talks about pulling the foot off the groung. Some even cue stepping over long grass or stepping over the opposite knee, as for me I am prefer the Tellezian school of thought which is pushing up with the stride. I know Dan also follows this approach. I remember him telling me in the form of a question, if I've ever notice how easly the free leg swings up when doing bounds/skips.
    Stepping over is not something you should force it should happen if there are no imblances, injuries, and the right muscle tone is there. If it's not leave it alone, Donovan and Chambers are two prime exaples of sprinters that don't. Also you can look at most off the top Kenyans, their swing mechanics are so nice(even passes above the opposite knee). Does anyone think they are thinking step over, step over step over for 800 meters?

    jjh999 on #21365

    "Pulling the foot off the ground"?

    Unless you are working with a true "motor genius" this cue will undoubtedly lead to younger/less experienced athletes driving the free knee up rather than focusing on the ground mechanics. I have NEVER used any cue that involves an emphasis on raising the knee. You are asking for postural problems if you do.

    I think Mike's point is this: If you do the right things on the ground at the right time, the quality of the swing phase (or whatever you want to call it) will be high. Teaching athletes to do things with their limbs in space when rotating around an axis at a ridiculously high velocity is a tough one. Teach the ground mechanics, use the stepover cue, cue the body posture and things tend to clean up.

    Physics doesn't lie.

    From the gospel of Tellez, "Sprinting is a pushing action against the ground"


    "Let the knee lead! Don't force it up, just let it lead!"

    fluke on #21366

    Fluke….if you had a problem with sprint technique (if it exists) what should you do? What were you told at the USATF school? More Ghosts in the closet?

    Vanilla- at USATF technique issue were handled by or deferred to the Ghost.

    To correct technique problems, I think it takes a lot more then cueing to solve the problem(s). I agree with a coach I know that most technique problems will br corrected by not only increased strength but also: flexibility training and definatley restoration/recovery.

    vanilla-ice on #21367

    Great…so I guess when I have a problem with mechanics, I should jest refer to my throws coach!

    Kebba Tolbert on #21368

    hey… hey… what's wrong with Colby? I acutally like Colby (he he)

    [i]Originally posted by JJ[/i]
    Lost in all the witty repartee:

    It's COBY Miller , not Colby.

    Carry on…

    Mike Young
    Mike Young on #21370

    Nice link but was it supposed to show us anything in particular :?:.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    2belite on #21371

    Nahh…… Carl told me to post some pictures, so I was just messing with him:lol:

    Carl Valle
    Carl Valle on #21372

    Ahh….. the domestic photos of Coby….notice that video would be a more precise method because anyone in the know would realize that he was a football player in High School and in vain tried to play in a rinky dink CC. That information such as his lack of hip mobility (I would argue IT and TFL) and motor engrams of football etched into his central pattern generators has his feet landing to far LATERALY not from the "thigh master" theory. If that was the case then Dwain "Tank" Chambers would have the same problem. Slow motion and stills from only a sagital view is not a complete evaluation since we live in a 3D world. It important to watch video at topspeed since rhythm can be assessed far more acurately to a trained eye.

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