PreMeet Supp

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        utfootball4 on #15583

        Any thoughts on this blend?

        Maximum Impact Multi-Phase Stimulant & Intensity Blend 340mg
        B-Phenylethylamine HCL 50mg *
        Methylsynephrine 20mg *
        B-Methylphenylethylamine Tartrate 20mg *
        Theobromine Anhydrous 50mg *
        Caffeine Anhydrous 200mg *

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        Craig Pickering on #80942

        With stimulants, do you stop taking them in training any length of time before competing? A couple of nutritionists have mentioned to me that its best to avoid caffeine for a week or so pre-competition, as your caffeine receptors get used to it. Because of that, I tend to come off caffeine in training 3-4 weeks before my first competition, so when I take it on race day, I really get a buzz out of it.

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        utfootball4 on #80951

        My athletes only use stimulants for comp..

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        Craig Pickering on #80954

        Ok. Obviously my confusion arouse when you mentioned caffeine in a pre-workout drink. I thought caffeine was a stimulant, and a workout wasnt a comp.

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        utfootball4 on #80957

        Ok. Obviously my confusion arouse when you mentioned caffeine in a pre-workout drink. I thought caffeine was a stimulant, and a workout wasnt a comp.

        Is that better bud?

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        Craig Pickering on #80958

        Glad the confusion can now be avoided!

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        utfootball4 on #80959

        Glad the confusion can now be avoided!

        Great, so lets get back on topic.. Anything you can contribute?

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        Craig Pickering on #80960

        Sounds like a great pre-comp stim drink. The only other thing I would have added was about not taking stims in training …. but I think we have been down that route.

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        utfootball4 on #80961

        Sounds like a great pre-comp stim drink. The only other thing I would have added was about not taking stims in training …. but I think we have been down that route.

        Do you know much about the chemicals in this pre-comp drink?

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #80963

        Why not take stims during training?

        UT i will get back to you on the chems later today. Looks great though just from a quick glance…

        could add some GUARANA EXTRACT and lower the caffeine dose, B-12 is crazy dose as well…

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        utfootball4 on #80964

        Why not take stims during training?

        UT i will get back to you on the chems later today. Looks great though just from a quick glance…

        could add some GUARANA EXTRACT and lower the caffeine dose, B-12 is crazy dose as well…

        Can be overkill on the CNS if done over a long time period.. I only recommend in rare cases, for example if the athlete has to train 6am in the mornings and even in these cases I prefer to avoid stims.

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        Craig Pickering on #80966

        [quote author="speedfreak1" date="1239305193"]Sounds like a great pre-comp stim drink. The only other thing I would have added was about not taking stims in training …. but I think we have been down that route.

        Do you know much about the chemicals in this pre-comp drink?[/quote]

        I do. The drink contains crystal salts of various neurotransmitters (i.e. Phenylethylamine) and vaso-dilators (Theobromine). Vasodilators are obviously good to increase muscle blood pump, to get nutrients to the muscle, and remove waste products post-race (in the case of sprints) or during race (in the case of endurance / team sports). You could use nitric oxide tablets for a similar effect. Neurotransmitters are obviously good as they could increase the intensity of the action potential across a synapse, possibly allowing a greater MU recruitment or neural drive.

        Beta-Methylphenylethylamine is a stimulant, along with caffeine, which will prevent CNS by preventing the release of seratonin, and its derivative seratonin 5-HT from entering the brain, so tail end of the race (in the sprints) this should have a slight positive effect.

        Im not sure if you were trying to show me up by assuming a lack of chemical knowledge or not, but if you werent, hope this helps. The only thing Im not sure of is the legality of those supplements, as obviously the NCAA may have different rules regarding illegal substances, and I dont know if you coach there or not.

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        B Hobbs on #80972

        A needle in the butt always worked for me….na just kidding.

        How bout just working on your daily diet. Changing your intake only for meets can play havoc on the body by flooding it with foreign unfamiliar.

        And.. The best supplement I have EVER Taken is Xtends by Scivation…loads of energy w/o the caffeine and you recover like a beast.

        Only sup I ever suggest are protein and BCAAs.

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        utfootball4 on #80976

        [quote author="utfootball4" date="1239305992"][quote author="speedfreak1" date="1239305193"]Sounds like a great pre-comp stim drink. The only other thing I would have added was about not taking stims in training …. but I think we have been down that route.

        Do you know much about the chemicals in this pre-comp drink?[/quote]

        I do. The drink contains crystal salts of various neurotransmitters (i.e. Phenylethylamine) and vaso-dilators (Theobromine). Vasodilators are obviously good to increase muscle blood pump, to get nutrients to the muscle, and remove waste products post-race (in the case of sprints) or during race (in the case of endurance / team sports). You could use nitric oxide tablets for a similar effect. Neurotransmitters are obviously good as they could increase the intensity of the action potential across a synapse, possibly allowing a greater MU recruitment or neural drive.

        Beta-Methylphenylethylamine is a stimulant, along with caffeine, which will prevent CNS by preventing the release of seratonin, and its derivative seratonin 5-HT from entering the brain, so tail end of the race (in the sprints) this should have a slight positive effect.

        Im not sure if you were trying to show me up by assuming a lack of chemical knowledge or not, but if you werent, hope this helps. The only thing Im not sure of is the legality of those supplements, as obviously the NCAA may have different rules regarding illegal substances, and I dont know if you coach there or not.[/quote]

        Thanks bro, nice feedback…

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        trackspeedboy on #80986

        what about muscle speed that was previously discussed, about to order some now.

        Personally and honestly… im looking for the best legal performance enhancing thing there is…

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        Participant
        utfootball4 on #80987

        what about muscle speed that was previously discussed, about to order some now.

        Personally and honestly… im looking for the best [i]legal[/i] performance enhancing thing there is…

        When you say performance enhancing are you talking about Stim or what?

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        trackspeedboy on #80988

        [quote author="trackspeedboy" date="1239325152"]what about muscle speed that was previously discussed, about to order some now.

        Personally and honestly… im looking for the best [i]legal[/i] performance enhancing thing there is…

        When you say performance enhancing are you talking about Stim or what?[/quote]

        Yes basically.
        Overall, aside from the little things here and there, there isnt too much of a PED that is legal and safe…

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        mferrari3 on #80989

        i’d like to see some other things, i’ve tried caffeine pills (didn’t notice) and a supplement called Gametime

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        B Hobbs on #80993

        Refer to my post….It doesn’t make you crazy like caffeine stims will but your ability to sustain and recover will be great

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        trackspeedboy on #81002

        Another couple ones I’ve seen over time… are powerdrive and brainquicken.
        Heard brainquicken works for some temporarily but effects go away very soon (within few times use or even once) and powerdrive… not too sure.

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #88958

        Just so everyone on here knows…

        Musclespeed is now banned by WADA! So be careful.

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        mortac8 on #88959

        Why? Is nandrolone in their secret proprietary matrix?

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #88960

        lol! right…

        Nah, they added Methylhexaneamine (Geranium extract, 1,3 D….) to their banned list.

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        Irish100m on #92820

        Does drinks like ‘tea’, Coke etc count as having too much caffeine in to reduce the effectiveness of the stimulant?

        Only just stumbled across this, i usually have a couple of cups of tea a day and normally use Lucozade caffeine boost in training. On race day i will have a can of red bull about 15 minutes before the race along with Lucozade and water during warm up.

        Should i avoid tea, coke etc in the build up to races?

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        ABCs on #92823

        Good question. I too usually have a red bull before races. Oddly enough I didn’t when I set a PR, but I don’t think that had much to do with it. I know Speadfreak1 says he uses red bull.

        I often have a pepsi or coke at lunch on race day. So I am with you Irish100m. Does this reduce the effectiveness of the pre-race red bull?

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        Irish100m on #92824

        Yeh well i am putting caffiene into my system everyday. Things like coke and lucozade caffiene boost have high amounnts of caffiene whereas tea is quite low i think (especially compared to coffee). Before anyone suggests – i wouldnt drink decaff – its vile i’d rather just not drink it

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        trackspeedboy on #92826

        Just so everyone on here knows…

        Musclespeed is now banned by WADA! So be careful.

        geranium extract.. pfft whatever, im gonna continue using as im not tested currently…

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        griff on #92840

        I take a blast of smelling salts (the stuff they use to revive boxers after a knock out)just when i am called to the starting blocks, wakes you and make you alert in the moments before the gun.

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        mortac8 on #92841

        Smelling salts… nice. I always wondered why more people didn’t do that. I have actually never seen anyone do it at a track meet.

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        Craig Pickering on #92861

        Taking caffeine 15 mins pre-race is next to useless – it takes about 60 mins to reach peak concentration in your blood. I take caffeine 80mins and 60 mins pre-race in order to get enough to have an effect. I also reduce the caffeine I take in the 3-4 days prior to the race, so my body isnt all that used to it, to give it a big kick!

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #92864

        Taking caffeine 15 mins pre-race is next to useless – it takes about 60 mins to reach peak concentration in your blood. I take caffeine 80mins and 60 mins pre-race in order to get enough to have an effect. I also reduce the caffeine I take in the 3-4 days prior to the race, so my body isnt all that used to it, to give it a big kick!

        I do remember a few years back, your friend Mr Gardner drank TWO redbulls right in front of me straight before he got to the starting blocks and won the final of the UK trials.

        What was that about?

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        Irish100m on #92865

        [quote author="speedfreak1" date="1261960909"]Taking caffeine 15 mins pre-race is next to useless – it takes about 60 mins to reach peak concentration in your blood. I take caffeine 80mins and 60 mins pre-race in order to get enough to have an effect. I also reduce the caffeine I take in the 3-4 days prior to the race, so my body isnt all that used to it, to give it a big kick!

        I do remember a few years back, your friend Mr Gardner drank TWO redbulls right in front of me straight before he got to the starting blocks and won the final of the UK trials.

        What was that about?[/quote]

        Red Bull wanted the public to see him drinking it?

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        Craig Pickering on #92881

        Exactly.

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #92888

        No couldn’t have been.

        Becuase it wasn’t on TV. I was there near the LJ runway, he walked over near where i was and went to a redbull bin, got 2 and drank them. This wouldn’t have been on TV becuase he wasn’t near the start line…

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        Craig Pickering on #92952

        He must have been doing it incase the TV was watching.

        He wouldnt do it otherwise for 2 reasons:

        1) He knows caffeine theory
        2) That much liquid that close to a race is retarded!

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        Irish100m on #92953

        So an hour is the right time to take, in my naiverty i would take it about 5-10 mins before startline thinking an immediate caffience ‘rush’ would take place

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #92955

        Yeah i thought the same thing really…but he ran very well! lol…sub 6.5 in England! if i remember right.

        Honestly, many times i have taken caffeine 15 min before i jump as well…

        So for first meet i will do exactly what you do Craig and see…

        How much roughly do you drink 80 mins before and then 60 mins before? and what do you drink?

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        Irish100m on #93421

        Right;

        Say I have 3 races in one day (60m), how many times should I put the caffiene into my system? Here is the timetable;

        60m heats – 14.05

        Semi finals – 15.20

        Final – 16.45

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        Craig Pickering on #93483

        Dont use caffeine for the first race (unless you really need it!)

        For the semis, one caffeine drink at 14.10, another at 14.30
        For the final, one at 15.45 just to top up the levels.

        Its all about trying out what works for you. I would probably have 2 caffeine drinks between semis and final, one at 15.30 and one at 15.50, but thats a) a lot of liquid and b) alot of caffeine if you are not used to it!

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        Irish100m on #93485

        I definitely wont need it for heat, probably wouldnt even need it for semi. I will certainly make the final.

        Thanks for advice

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #109892

        Hi to bring up an old thread…

        So, so far during this week, my first week back I haven’t taken any pre workout sup and i’m feeling good…

        Should I take something? what do you recommend that is in a vitamin shop or should I keep on not taking anything?

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111267

        ….

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111289

        ….

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        Craig Pickering on #111230

        I believe there is some evidence regarding caffeine and MVC in weightlifting. Basically, caffeine improved lifting ability. I cant remember what caused this improvement, but its a reasonable guess to assume that if you can lift more weight, you are producing more force.

        I cant see how taking a CNS activator pre-race will increase your muscular mass for that race. If you are worried about water weight, take it in tablet or powder form, washed down with your usual volume of pre-race water.

        If you are still at uni you will be able to access some journals regarding how caffeine works on the CNS.

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        Irish100m on #111296

        aren’t WADA looking into making caffiene a banned substance?

        I know some ridiculous amnount (equal to 8 cupds of coffee) is banned, but are they goign to make even 50mg too much?

        I might die

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        COV-GOD on #111300

        You get about 50mg in a normal cup of tea so that might be a bit restrictive lol

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111305

        ….

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        comando-joe on #111316

        WOW, after reading your BS posts, i now realise im not clean and i can no longer look at myself in the mirror. I drink tea and coffee multiple times a day. Now i realise i didnt gain all my strength alone, and all them coffees before training when i was feeling crap…..i cheated. Also the 200g of whey i have a day, i guess thats cheating, but not if i bought loads of steaks instead?

        “caffeine was consistent on taking almost 10mins off my 40mile time over water alone” You should be in advertisement.

        “If athleticism is currently regarded as being in a decline” It’s not.

        Your Bolt views are retarded and unfounded. Victor Conte knows a little more than you i would think.

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111317

        Caffeine was really that effective for my endurance/power output levels when I was road cycling over just water alone, rest assured. Those levels remained high over 40miles which is a fair distance & cut my times significantly. It’s a powerhouse enhancer.

        Victor Conte is not an insider/fly on the wall in the Bolt-Mills camp?. His views speculatory at best?, just like yours? & all the rest of us?.

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        Craig Pickering on #111321

        JC, where do you draw the line regarding your definition of PEDs? I assume you dont believe in vitamin pills? What about eating vitamin fortified foods, like cereals?

        What about a high protein diet? This has been shown to be ergogenic, and can be achieved by eating lots of meat and eggs.

        Are you comfortable with people eating more carbohydrates pre-race and ensuring they are optimally hydrated.

        Id hate to think that someone would eat Turkey pre-bed to get a raise in tryptophan to help them sleep. That in itself could help performance the day.

        You must really struggle on a day-to-day basis to keep “clean”.

        Ive seen Bolt drink an energy drink. SHOCKER!

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        comando-joe on #111323

        The point i was getting at with Conte was the fact that he put so many athletes on drug programs and other supplements. Too bad you wasnt around to tell them they would have been better athletes without it.

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        Mccabe on #111324

        Look at the difference between a performance enhancing drug and an ergogenic aid. I imagine everything Joe takes is NOT on the banned list so therefore he is 100% clean.

        Go back to school pal.

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        Josh Hurlebaus on #111331

        Every time I think I’ve read something that couldn’t possibly be any more idiotic, JC goes and invents a new way to surprise me. Next thing you know he will be touting his hunter/gatherer and nomadic lifestyle (as well as barefoot running) as the only true way to ensure that you are 100% clean and natural.

        I actually applaud JC. Pioneer of internet BS and idiocy in track and field!

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        Mccabe on #111332

        Read the “Macho midsection” topic…

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111348

        ….

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        Mccabe on #111356

        For one you are completely wrong. End of.

        Secondly, if it is your opinion that legal supplements make you “dirty” then that is your opinion. Keep it to yourself.

        If you said to myself I was a drug cheat for taking Creatine I would punch you in the throat.

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        benshannonpt on #111358

        Wow,

        JC Cooper talks the most BS i had ever seen.

        Im guessing your cycling tests were done on an egometer or turbo trainer with the same test conditions each time?

        Any way, back on to the important stuff.

        I am caffiene intolerant now, over the last year i have become more and more sensitive to the point a cup of tea makes me nauseous. I compete in Adventure races ranging from 5 hours upto 4/5days none stop and as such CNS stimulants are important for me. Ginseng works well i have to say. I am looking for a legal pre workout drink that doenst contain caffiene. That xtends that was mentioned looks good. Any other suggestions?

        thanks

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        burkhalter on #111359

        Yeah extense works well, the blue ones are better than the red. Or you can just use yohimbine by itself.

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        Josh Hurlebaus on #111362

        [quote author="Callam Mccabe" date="1318101997"]Look at the difference between a performance enhancing drug and an ergogenic aid. I imagine everything Joe takes is NOT on the banned list so therefore he is 100% clean.

        That is dependant on your definition & beliefs.

        100% is a figure that can only truly belong to the athletes running natural.

        Most are maybe running 100% ‘banned drugs’ free, I will give them that. But where is there PED % at?.
        [/quote]

        Wrong. The definition of PED is performance enhancing DRUG. Caffeine, creatine, etc are NOT classified as drugs. End of story. Once again its you using shit you don’t understand to push ridiculous beliefs about assbackwards theories.

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111397

        …..

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        Mccabe on #111405

        Why is that when someone points out you are full of shit you come back with even more shit? It says in one of your quotes “speculates” which is your justification for even more bullshit…

        Can’t see a reference to a paper anywhere…

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111425

        My insinuation is that sport isn’t competed on a level playing field.

        In cycling your going to get anywhere between a 5-20% boost in performance depending on knowledge.

        In sprinting, I just wonder if those kind of %’s can be pulled back or not for guys with bad intolerances to caffeine. In cycling which is another world, it’s near on impossible.

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        Mccabe on #111427

        Idiot. If everyone didn’t use supplements you would start to say people were getting an unfair advantage because of their diets.

        How are you backing up that 5-20% claim? Bet you can’t.

        And go read what a Performance Enhancing DRUG actually is…

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        comando-joe on #111428

        Sorry to tell you this JC, but your original sport is completely endurance based, slow twitch muscle. Your wasting your time with sprinting.

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111456

        Sorry to tell you this JC, but your original sport is completely endurance based, slow twitch muscle. Your wasting your time with sprinting.

        Which is why I only use it very sparingly now to get my hip flexors more explosive.

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        Mccabe on #111463

        Joe mentioned earlier that you claimed to be quicker than a 10.5 guy?…something stinks.

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #111542

        OK, so I got a little stupid mentioning caffeine as it’s a staple with so many top athletes.

        Although some of the others I mention certainly need to be considered by WADA.

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