Old Thread: Strength @ LSU

Posted In: The Classics

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #8302

        posted on 6-18-2002 at 02:29 AM by jacko

        strength at LSU

        Mike, My interest is in sprints/Horizontal jumps. Could you lay out the approach in the weight room at LSU for the jumpers/sprinters, have read an article where Boo spoke about cleans & squats but what other exercises are used/How many days per week ect.
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        posted on 6-18-2002 at 05:03 PM by Mike

        Cleans, etc.

        Our lifting schedule varies throughout the year, but in general it goes something like this:
        -4 – 6 days a week.
        -At least 2, possibly up to 3 of those days will be a workout consisting of an olympic weightlifting movement, some type of squat, and some type of pressing movement.
        -The remaining days will be used to perform a weightlifting circuit of some sort where the athletes do anywhere from 15-30 exercises and the circuit will last about 30 minutes.
        -As for our exercise selection it goes something like this: for the Olympic weightlifting movements, we might do power cleans from various positions (floor, above knee, below knee) or snatches (split snatch, power snatch from floor, above knee, below knee). The squatting movements could be back squats, front squats, lunges, step-ups, split squat jumps, etc. The pressing movements ussually are either bench press, incline press or military press. The reps and intensity as well as the exercises chosen vary throughout the year and depending on the training cycle. As a rule of thumb however, our olympic movements are ussually in the 1-4 rep range, and the squats and pressing movements are in the 3-8 rep range. We ussually do 4-6 sets of each of those exercises. I hope this cleared some things up. If you have any further questions let me know.
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        posted on 6-18-2002 at 10:43 PM by Jacko

        thanks mike,
        Sounds similar to Dan Pfaff’s stuff at Texas, (I know he came from LSU) have spoken to him numerous times about his programs. Are the circuits mainly ancillary type stuff?. I have some test results that Boo put up on a list somewhere for MJ’s , Shot throws and 30m. What sort of numbers do the female sprinters (Muna ect) put up in the weight room (Cleans, squats, Presses). My best female sprinter (11.40w/11.60) has the following bests at 55kg BW
        Clean 70k, Back Squat (Full – Olympic) 100kg, Bench 70kg.

        Keep up the good work
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        posted on 6-19-2002 at 12:56 AM by mike

        Jacko-
        You’re right about the circuits- they are mostly ancillary type stuff (body building exercises/ general strength type stuff). The main purpose of these circuits is to increase work capacity and also to help improve recovery. Body building exercises (in the 8-15 rep range) and exercise circuits have been shown to increase growth hormone secretion which should help in recovery from the harder workouts.

        Are the test results that you are referring to the ones that Boo posted to the speed-power list server? If so, those results are from this past year’s test pentathlon. That was an unbelievable competition. Walter Davis and Claston Bernard both broke the school record for the test (which is quite amazing if you consider the great athletes we’ve had here at LSU). We do this test in the fall as a big competition for the whole team. The test consists of the 30m, SLJ, STJ, overhead SP, & between the legs forward SP.

        As for the weight room numbers for the womens sprinters, I’m not exactly sure, but I know they are nothing amazing. As a matter of fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen Muna ever clean more than 50 kg or squat over 70 kg. She is pretty thin though if you’ve ever seen her. Lolo Jones is quite strong from what I’ve seen but I couldn’t recall any numbers for her. The women’s sprinters don’t follow quite the same weight room routin
        e as us though. It’s similar but not exactly the same. In general, the strongest athletes on the team are the throwers and jumpers/multis.
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        posted on 6-19-2002 at 05:23 AM by jacko

        strength ar LSU

        Mike are you able to post any samples of your gym circuit work?
        I have heard the same reasoning for the circuits from Dan Pfaff.
        what are Walter’s strength levels like ?(yes the testing was the one you mentioned)
        and finally do you have any formula’s ect for comparing cleans/squats to the various field tests (SLJ, BOH ect).
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        posted on 6-19-2002 at 06:19 AM by mike

        The bodybuilding circuits go like this:
        Circuit A-

        knee extension

        lunges

        leg curls

        lunge walks

        back hypers

        rows

        lat pulldowns to back

        behind the neck press

        dips

        hanging leg lifts

        russian twists

        behind the neck press

        Circuit B

        single leg extension

        twist lunge

        single leg curls

        back hypers w/ twist

        rows

        lat pulldowns to front

        alternate weighted v-sits

        hanging lateral leg lifts

        stooped russian twists

        windmills

        crossover stepups

        closed squats

        We ussually do a circuit consisting of 24 exercises. This may either be 2x through one of the above circuits or 1x through each.

        Walter is quite strong. He’s not the strongest jumper though at LSU. Off the top of my head I’d say he could max out on cleans at 120 kg and about 160 kg for back squats. Where he is most amazing is out on the track, not in the weightroom.

        No we don’t have any formulas for comparing the various tests in the weight room to field tests. One of the things I’m doing for USATF right now is trying to come up with something like that though. I’m not really sure how valuable it will be; but I’m looking into it to help create some kind of standardized testing set up for the womens putters.
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        posted on 6-19-2002 at 06:31 AM by jacko

        strength at LSU

        When evaluating my program for the year, and looking at out testing (Pre training) It appears to me our strength levels are good, but our results in power tests SLJ, Shot throws are relatively lagging, So I think I need to incorporate more explosive type work, especially things to improve our starting strength.
        So I am thinking that a little more use of Shots/MEd balls ect may be in order.
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        posted on 6-19-2002 at 05:13 PM by mike

        getting strength that means something

        I think you’re right. Weight room work needs to be balanced with medball, SP throws, plyos, etc. to really get the full benefit. A lot of people mistakenly think that weight room strength has a direct correlation to performance on the track. I think that it definitely helps but there comes a point of limiting returns where more strength will not necessarily help all that much. It may in fact hurt performance if the athlete is spending more time trying to become a better lifter and devoting less time to becoming a better track & field athlete.

        It is also important to keep in mind that while force development in the weight room is very high, the rate of force development is actually quite slow when compared to most track and field events. I think this is where the plyos, medball, etc can help to bridge the gap.
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        posted on 6-19-2002 at 10:41 PM by jacko

        Mike, Have read a lot of stuff recently about the posterior chain, and using special exercises to target weakness in this area eg using deadlifts to strengthen the glutes/HS before moving on to faster
        lifts like cleans ect. what are your thoughts, do you think the olympics are the best lifts to generally strengthen this area (I agree that they have benefits in RFD, Starting strength ect).
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        posted on 6-20-2002 at 03:20 AM by mike

        posterior chain, etc.

        I think posterior chain stuff is really important. I handled all the strength work last year for all the sprinters, jumpers and hurdlers at Ohio University and we did lots and lots to work this area. We only had one hamstring problem all year and that was to a guy who had had chronic hamstring problems his whole career. We did quite a bit of Romanian DLs, Glute-Ham Raises, Stiff Legged DLs, Clean Pulls, etc. I think DEEP squats are great for this area too. When I say deep, I’m not talking about parallel- I’m talking about bottom to the floor- super deep squats. The lower the depth of the squat the more the hamstring muscle group gets involved. When looking for the best exercises to develop the posterior chain, remember that the hamstrings are hip extensors AND knee flexors, and as such both functions needed to be worked. If you can find an exercise to work both roles at the same time then you’ve got a gem- the Glute-Ham raise (where they come up to parallel and then flex at the knees so that they finish with their torso perpindicular to the ground) is one of the few that will do this for you. There’s also some stuff you can do on a stability ball that can do the same thing.

        I’m a really big fan of the Olympic lifts. If done correctly, they are irreplaceable in the training program. I think that they can be great at strengthening the posterior chain also. As for needing to do other lifts before you teach the Olympic Lifts (OL), I think that it is a good idea from a teaching standpoint but not really necessary from a strength standpoint. As with all training, one of the keys is to not do too much too soon. One can easily do the OL with something as light as a 15kg bar to learn the technique if necessary. If there is an obvious strength deficiency in the hamstring muscle group then that would be another story altogether. In that case, you’d definitely want to develop a strong foundation level of strength, which will require special attention to the weakest link.
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        posted on 6-20-2002 at 05:43 AM by jacko

        Mike, Previously we have used Cleans & Squats on Monday & Thursday each week, But I am currently trying just one lift on each of those Days ie one day squat theme and one day cleans theme.
        will use a few extra sets eg 5-6 x 5 instead of 3-4 when using two lifts. And will begin the cleans theme day with deadlfts before moving on to clean Pulls and Cleans later in the year.
        A little more economical I think, will also allow a little more time for MJ or MT work before the weight room. (Time is short as most of my athletes have to work).
        May include some ancillariy stuff if time and energy permits. (Ps we do our upper body work on seperate days)
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        posted on 6-21-2002 at 11:13 PM by Daniel Fichter

        You mentioned squats very deep. This is exactly why i love the Olympic Lifts through a full range of motion. The power clean and power snatch have there place in every weight room, but do not neglect your full olympic lifts and their impact on developing full range of motion!
        Dan Fichter
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        posted on 6-25-2002 at 03:43 PM by mike

        Great Point Dan-
        I love the full Olympic Lifts. I don’t think that there are any other exercises you could do that would better develop total body power (with the explosive pull & jerk), strength (from standing up with the weight after it has been racked in a low position), and flexibility (from the low positions of both the clean & jerk and especially the snatch)
        . I’d say if you only had 2 hours a week to devote to strength, you’d really only need to do 3 exercises:

        clean & jerk

        snatch

        back squat
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        posted on 6-26-2002 at 01:36 AM by jacko

        sleds, Hills ect

        Mike, do your guys (or Boo’s) do any sled work or hill work for power development, if so what types do you like.
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        posted on 6-26-2002 at 01:30 PM by mike

        Resisted Running

        I am going to start a new thread on this one (see Resisted Running)
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        posted on 6-27-2002 at 05:49 AM by jacko

        mike,
        You mentioned front squats in your weight work, whats your take of these for Long Jumpers, I have used them in the past and like the fact that they take the load off the back as well as the flexibility benefits, I also think they do a lot for core stability. I used full front squats (bottom to floor) to rehab one of my athletes knees after surgery once the physio’s partial range type exercises (1/4 squats and step up type things) failed.
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        posted on 6-27-2002 at 07:57 PM by mike

        Jacko-
        Ditto to what you stated in your last post. The front squat is a great way to strengthen all athletes. In the front squat, more emphasis is placed on the anterior thigh muscles and less on the low back and posterior thigh muscles. To do them correctly, you must also have a more upright posture. On a related note, a recent research article stressed the importance of selecting exercises in which the posture used in training exercises closely resembles that of the movements
        they are attempting to facilitate. Since we want a mostly upright and ‘tall’ posture when running and through takeoff, maybe front squats would be of greater value than other forms of squats….I don’t know. Here’s the article info that I’m referring to:
        Wilson GJ, Murphy AJ, Walshe A. (1996).The specificity of strength training: the effect of posture. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol; 73(3-4):346-52.

        I think heavy loaded movements (squats, olympic lifts, overhead pressing movements, and various pulling movements) are the best way to strengthen the core. I think the typical core/pillar/ab/hip/glute circuits are good for getting some of the smaller muscles, or for training muscles in different motions but I don’t think they could possibly have the same strengthening effect as the above mentioned exercises.

        The rehab “training” that many athletic trainers have athletes do for rehab is worthless. I think most of the typical 1/4 squat progression stuff, balance board stuff, tape jobs, and flexibility recomendations that are often seen in athletic training rooms is hogwash. Having said that, a good athletic trainer who knows what he/she is doing can be an invaluable tool to any sports team.
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        posted on 6-27-2002 at 08:39 PM by Daniel Fichter

        Mike,
        My take on it is this. Often times we send kids to therapy becuase of an injury. What happens is the therapist works on restoring the correct neural firing pateterns etc. The exercises they do are different(some times). When the athlete is returned to us, we see an improvement in their performance. Of course, most coaches think it was the therapy that made them perform better. I tend to think that it could of been an over use injury and the athlete just needed proper recovery and regeneration. It wasnt any of the neat balancing tricks they did, it was the fact that they did different drills to help aid the recovery process. What coaches are now doing is bringing the ball to pracitice thinking this is the cure all to athletic performance. They are dead wrong. Building in proper recovery is the way to go. Nothing specia
        l here, just sound training. Dont look for the gadget. Look for the right plan. These people are not performance specialists, they are here to get our athletes back to full speed.
        Dan Fichter
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        posted on 7-11-2002 at 12:46 AM by Jacko

        mike, when you are lifting (Big lifts) 3 x per week how do you allocate the lifts ie
        do you back squat 2 x and choose a different lift for the third day or do you choose a different lift every session eg day 1 = Back sq Day 2 = Lunge Day 3 = Front squat
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        posted on 7-11-2002 at 03:50 AM by mike

        We would typically do squats only once a week. We might do front squats, lunges, lunge jumps, step ups, or split squats on the other days. On occasion we may throw in some static / dynamic type lifting also.
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        posted on 7-23-2002 at 03:00 AM by jacko

        mike, do you do GS circuits in the field as well as the gym stuff. where does it fit in the weekly plan.
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        posted on 7-24-2002 at 06:04 PM by mike

        Yes we do GS in the field also. We have GS circuits that are done 2-3x a week as well as medball circuits that may be done 2-3x a week. The GS field circuits would typically be done on the same days we do the bodybuilding circuits.

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        posted on 8-30-2002 at 05:45 AM by jacko

        Mike, what sort of rep schemes do you use for step ups and lunge jumps, I assume you would not be strictly in the 3-8 range as per squats.
        Also when Boo takes the squatting out of the program does he replace it with other exercises of does he just do the olympic variants in that session?
        PS Thanks for your thoughts so far, my athletes appreciate it greatly.

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        posted on 8-30-2002 at 05:48 AM by jacko

        Mike,
        Could you go more into what you did at Ohio last year in terms of the strength work set up, as well as how the track work was set up around it.

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        posted on 8-30-2002 at 04:56 PM by mike

        When I was at OU two years ago I put together the strength program for all the sprinters, jumpers, hurdlers, and multis. We lifted in the morning (7am) 3 days a week during fall and some of winter and 2 days a week for the remainder of winter and all of spring. I personally wanted to do more but we were limited by the facility times we were given. Our track workouts came in the afternoon (3pm). A typical program would consist of an Olympic movement or a variation, a squat (front, back, single leg, lunges, etc.), a pressing movement (bench, military, DB work, etc.), an upper body pulling movement (chin-ups, rows, etc.), and some assistance work. The assistance work might be some short weight circuit or maybe a couple bodyweight exercises. I like to keep the rep range relatively low through out the year, even early on. What I would do though is monitor the intensities and volume. I’d do this by using % of rep max’s, and varying the sets and to a small extent the reps. For instance, during September they might do 8-10 x 3 for cleans @ 55-65%. In May however, they would do 4 x 2 @ 85+% after a couple low-rep warm up sets. Also, I take an opposite view to most on near maximal work. Most people think doing 1-2 reps at 90+% is where athletes get hurt. I tend to think it’s probably more likely that a kid would get hurt on the last few reps of a set of 12 @ 75%. Those last few reps are when the muscle is really fatigued and technique is most likely to break down as a result. Also, when you do lower intensity sets (i.e- 12 @ 75%) the first few reps of the set are not taxing the body to any great extent. Compare these two
        possible pre-comp rep schemes for the squat:

        Option 1 sets/reps/intensity
        1 x 4 @ 50%
        1 x 4 @ 60%
        1 x 4 @ 70%
        1 x 4 @ 80%
        3 x 3 @ 85%

        Total reps: 36
        Total reps @ 70+%: 14
        Total reps @ 80+%: 6
        % of reps @ 70+%: 39
        % of reps @ 80+%: 17

        Option 2
        sets/reps/intensity
        1 x 12 @ 50%
        1 x 10 @ 60%
        1 x 8 @ 70%
        1 x 6 @ 80%

        Total reps: 21
        Total reps @ 70+%: 17
        Total reps @ 80+%: 13
        % of reps @ 70+%: 81
        % of reps @ 80+%: 62

        If you think that increasing force production is your primary reason for being in the weight room, then why would you choose option 2. You’d spend most of your energy, on very low intensity sets, and in the process fatigue yourself for the “work” sets.

        I don’t think that higher reps are terrible, I think they do have a place and I did incorporate them at certain points of the year. I would just prefer to train speed / power athletes like a speed / power athlete and not like a body builder.

        In addition to this format, I also, included some very low load (30% body weight or max depending on the exercise) speed exercises later in the year. These were either done for time or for reps (ussually less than 8).
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        posted on 9-4-2002 at 11:09 PM by jacko

        Mike,
        Do you think the circuits as Boo uses them are an effective way of keeping people fit/lean, I have a few issues with bodyweight control for one of my female sprinters. I am very reluctant to expose her to more work on the track for fear of stress type inuries to the shins/feet ect.
        What other options are available to get people “Fit”?
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        posted on 9-8-2002 at 06:48 PM by Mike

        I think the circuits are a great way of increasing general fitness and in so doing, helping to keep athletes lean. Fat is the bain of anyone in track and field. I think for strength / power athletes, weight circuits offer a viable and more useful alternative than adding aerobic workouts as a way to increase fitness. One of the nice things about weight circuits is that they have several benefits but do not require any significant recovery time. Weight circuits can be a means of increasing aerobic capacity and work capacity (although the aerobic component is minimal), as well as beneficially stimulating hormone levels. All of these add up to a leaner athlete. And all other things being equal, a leaner athlete will always have an advantage.

        If you wanted to do something else to increase fitness without overly stressing the body you could try pool workouts (aqua jogging) or interval workouts on a bike. Also, low intensity general strength circuits would be beneficial.

        Another alternative which may be harder to sell to kids is to make them understand that perhaps the best way to get lean is to be active throughout the day. That is, just tell them to do some really easy calistenics first thing in the morning or before they go to bed. If people would start walking places to where they would normally drive or parking their car a quarter mile away from their destination instead of always looking for the closest parking spot then obesity wouldn’t be nearly as much of a problem in this country. Any of these suggestions will fire up their metabolism and assist in fat burning.
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        posted on 9-8-2002 at 10:39 PM by jacko

        Mike, have you had any experience with interval workouts on the bike, Dan Pfaff suggested simulating all the track sessions on the bike for an athlete of mine who was recovering from a stress type lower leg injury.
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        posted on 9-9-2002 at 02:36 AM by mike

        I agree with Dan but I think that you might want to up the volume a bit just because cycling is so much less stressful than runnin
        g. If you were doing equivalent workouts on a bike as you are on a track (i.e- 4 x 300m run / 4 x 42′ cycle @ 90%) I don’t think that that amount of cycling would be nearly enough to elicit the same training response as the sprinting workout.

        Now if you are adding cycling workouts to a pre-existing workout regimen then there would be no need to try and get the same training response. That would more than likely just lead to overtraining.
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        posted on 9-10-2002 at 05:59 AM by jacko

        mike, back to your program from 2 years ago, where did you start in terms of rep ranges for the squat, I assume the 10 x 2 was for the olympic lifts?, I like the look of your program, the only concerns I have with my female sprinters is really low reps with Back squats, only because the loads fo up and I am not too keen about really heavy loads on their spines.
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        posted on 9-10-2002 at 03:23 PM by mike

        For the first 2 weeks we did back squats in the 8-10 rep range with really low loads (either a set weight like 60kg or maybe 40-50% max). I monitored %s and set the percentage for each set. The percentages were prescribed with some athlete leeway in case they felt exceptionally strong or tired on that day. After the first 2 weeks we went down to 5-6 reps and then finally to 3-4 reps. Although the load (% of Rep Max) was undulated throughout the season, the rep range stayed relatively constant at 3-4 throughout the season. There were several weeks where the rep range would go back up (8-10) and there were likewise weeks where they would be doing doubles and possibly even singles.
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        posted on 9-11-2002 at 04:17 PM by keith

        Mike, How long did you stay with 5 reps before going to 3 reps? What was the reasoning for going back to 8-10 reps?
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        posted on 9-12-2002 at 10:30 PM by mike

        Kieth-
        I didn’t do the sets of 5 for very long. We were into 3-rep squats after 1 month. Granted, we were still doing 30-35 total reps with a relatively light load (around 75%). I went back to some of the higher rep stuff after the indoor conference meet so that the kids could recover a little. Unless you’re not competing in indoors or are choosing to just train through it, a periodized plan for track athletes should have a double peak (once in indoors, once in outdoors). Essentially, in the early spring you should be putting the kids through a very similar, but shortened, version of the fall training cycle. Changes to the format can be made based on what you felt worked / didn’t work, the particular physical fitness of the athletes, etc.

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        posted on 9-19-2002 at 01:53 AM by jacko

        Mike
        How do you guys do you step ups, what height, what reps and how much loading?
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        posted on 9-19-2002 at 02:47 AM by mike

        We do 3 kinds of step-ups. The first kind is used in weight circuits and is called a twist step up. On this, you start with your leg crossing your body and up on the box. You then step up and turn. This is done with dumbells. The reps for this are 10 x each leg.

        We also do normal step ups with either dumbells or barbells. The load on this doesn’t get too heavy. Probably around 70kg for men. At OU I had some of the kids doing 90kg. This is for 5-8 reps per leg. The third kind of step-up is a plyo-step up where the athlete steps-up, switches feet, lands on the opposite foot, and repeats the exercise. This is done without weight. This exercise is usually done for time.

        We almost always use a box that is 18-24 inches high. A good ballpark idea for step height is getting the thigh to be parallel to the groun
        d when it is placed on the box.

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        posted on 10-7-2002 at 07:07 AM by jacko

        Mike, Two questions
        What’s your take on the Static/Dynamic Stuff. (would you include it on a regular basis.)
        And in the Program you designed, I take it you made up the volume by including a large # of sets,
        For squats of 5-6 repswas there more sets with the lower intensities
        eg 10 x 5 @ 70%
        Progressing to say 5 x 5 if the intensity was higher (Say 80-85%).
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        posted on 10-8-2002 at 01:52 AM by mike

        Jacko-
        I think static/dynamic stuff is a nice change of pace workout. We do it for 1 or 2 macrocycles here. I know several other big programs also use it on exercises like squats and bench press. I don’t know if I’d recommend doing it every week but I definitely think it can have a place in a well designed program.

        As for your second question, you’re exactly right. When the intensity is lower the total volume is quite high. So if sets of 5 were being done, then 8-10 sets might be appropriate. When the intensity got higher, the number of sets and / or reps would drop.
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        posted on 11-12-2002 at 08:16 AM by jacko

        Kebba, how do you set things up in the weight room, I read you use RDL’s at times, where do these fit in to the schedule.
        Andrew
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        posted on 11-13-2002 at 01:18 AM by ktolbert

        re: RDL’s

        i use them as part of our auxilliary training on general days.
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        posted on 11-13-2002 at 05:10 AM by mike

        Before I comment about RDLs, for those of you that aren’t familiar with human anatomy or muscle function, here’s a very pertinent crash course on the muscles at the back of the thigh:
        There are several muscles that make up the muscle group commonly known as the hamstring muscle group. Some of these muscles are mono-articular, meaning they only attach at one joint and thus only have one function. In the hamstring group, the mono-articular muscles serve to flex the knee. Other muscles in this group are bi-articular, meaning they span two joints. As such, they have two functions: knee flexion and hip extension. In running, the hamstring muscle group is used primarily as knee stabilizers and hip extensors. Now on to RDLs….

        I love RDLs. When I was at OU I used them all the time. I had the athletes doing tons of RDLs and Glute-Ham Raises. I think that the hip-extension function of the bi-articular muscles of the posterior thigh is severely overlooked and under-worked. In running, the biarticular muscles of the posterior thigh are primarily used as hip extensors rather than knee flexors. This is why it seems odd to me that leg curls (knee flexion) are the primary hamstring exercise in most track strength programs. Both RDLs and Glute-Ham raises work the hip extension function of these muscles. Interestingly enough, we did these two exercises all year several times a week at OU and didn’t have a single hamstring injury among the sprinters or jumpers. I know this is purely anectodal evidence, but I’d like to believe that this isn’t a coincidence.

        And a side note about Glute-Ham raises….
        if done correctly, they are one of only two exercises I know that works both functions (knee flexion and hip extension) of the hamstring muscle group at the same time. When I say done correctly, I mean that the back rises to a position where it is parallel with the floor (hip extension) and then the knees flex (knee flexion) to bring the trunk perpendicular to the floor. It’s important that the knee flexion not occur simply through the momentum generated from the hip extension but rather as an active contraction from the knee flexors.
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        posted on 11-13-2002 at 12:29 PM by JJ

        RDL’s

        Totally agree with you Mike.

        I use the RDL’s and weighted back hyperextensions with my group and have had good success. I also used the RDL with an athlete who suffered from chronic hamstring pulls during his college career. The RDL significantly his strength and function throghout his posterior chain.
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        posted on 1-20-2003 at 10:40 PM by jacko

        “The third kind of step-up is a plyo-step up where the athlete steps-up, switches feet, lands on the opposite foot, and repeats the exercise. This is done without weight. This exercise is usually done for time.”
        Mike, where do these fit into the program?
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        posted on 1-20-2003 at 11:02 PM by jacko

        Mike, you mentioned using split squats as a squat variation, how are these performed? Back foot elevated…what depth?
        also what loads do you find the woman can handle.
        Thanks
        JAcko
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        posted on 1-21-2003 at 01:19 AM by mike

        We use unloaded step-up jumps early in the year as part of a multi-jump series and later in the year we do loaded step-up jumps in the weight room.

        A split squat starts with the athlete in the extended or split position of a lunge. The difference from a lunge is that instead of stepping back to a “feet-together” position every reptition, the athlete just raises and lowers their hips without moving their feet from the split position.

        I think 50% of squat max would be a good ball park figure for both men and women on this lift. Obviously, the higher this percentage the better because split squats are slightly more specific to running and jumping as it is a unilateral movement compared to a bilateral movement (normal squat). All this of course is said with the condition being that you are trying to achieve the same thing with both squats and split squats and not emphasizing speed or strength with one or the other. For example, our athletes don’t get that high of a % because when we do them, it is later in the year and we are not trying to develop the same thing (maximal strength) as we did earlier in the year with the full squats. When we do get around to using this exercise the athletes probably use somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-40% of squat max.

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        Guest on #19299

        Bump….
        So what would you say a typical week looks like? One for normal season and one maybe prior to NC's?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19300

        For jumpers it would look like this:
        Early season
        M/ W/ F:
        OL (clean or snatch from various positions)
        Squatting movement (back squat, front squat, split squat, etc.)
        Pressing movement

        T/ R:
        Bodybuilding circuit 1-2 sets of 10-12 reps on 12-24 different exercises. We never do more than 24 total sets.

        Pre-NCs (2-3 weeks out):
        M / F:
        OL (clean or snatch from various positions)
        Squatting movement (back squat, front squat, split squat, etc.)
        Pressing movement

        W:
        OL (clean or snatch from various positions)

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        rice773 on #19301

        From the LSU bodybuilding circuits, how are windmills, stooped russian twists, crossover stepups and twist lunges done?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19302

        windmills = stand holding dbs w/ arms out to the side and feet wider than shoulder width. Rotate the trunk as you twist so that the R hand goes down to the area of the L foot and the L hand points up to the sky. Return to starting position and repeat for other side.

        stooped russian twists = stand with a plate against your chect, bend at the knees and hips and twist at the waist.

        crossover stepups = normal stepups except the leg that steps up onto the box should cross the midline of the body and the non-stepup leg drives up and across the body in the other direction.

        twist lunges = in place lunges, holding a plate against your chest and twisting at the waist with every lunge.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        rice773 on #19303

        Thanks so much for taking the time to explain that, I was lost without the help.

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        glitterman on #19304

        Hi guys, i have a program and would like to know what the following exercises are:
        Weights
        – Toe Risers
        – Static Stepup
        – Dynamic Stepup
        – Russian Twist "WIPERS"

        Multi Throws
        – OHB
        – BLF
        – MMTR
        – MMTL
        – OHF
        – KOHF
        – Square OHF
        – Hip C-T
        – Soccer Push
        – Hurdle Reach
        – Partner Exchange (Hip)
        – KSCT
        – Knee Toss
        – Prone C-T
        – Seated Roll
        – Pike – Shoot
        – Standing Shoulder T-C
        – Reach & Hike
        – Back Toss
        – Seated Oblique Twist T-C
        – Leg Toss
        – Torso Circle
        – Leg Ad-Abs
        – Prone OHB
        – Allah Arch
        – Partner Exchange-KOHB
        – Arm Ad-Abs

        General Strength
        – Prisoner Squats
        – rocket Jumps
        – Leg Toss
        – Rocky's
        – Cossack Extension
        – Prone Single Leg Hip Extension
        – Yogis Hamstring Dev.
        – Side Ups
        – Prone Flex Leg Hip Ext.

        I'm sure I understand what a few of the exercises are but I just dont understand that terminology. If you guys could explain what each of those exercises are, it would be greatly appreciated.

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        utfootball4 on #19305

        GOODLUCK!

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        glitterman on #19306

        I'm sure Mike will know most of these or someone from LSU!

        Help guys :dance:

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        utfootball4 on #19307

        i know most of those drills but i can promise most wont sit here and explain each drill – lol

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        glitterman on #19308

        well a quick description would be greatly appreciated. thanks

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        glitterman on #19309

        mike??? anyone??? really need some help just knowing what these exercises are. thanks

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19310

        I know all the exercises but I really hate to give exercise descriptions, especially when there are that many to describe. I simply don't have the time or the inclination to do it. Sorry. You can however find descriptions of some of them in the "abbreviation" thread. Another reason I can't / won't do it is because it is also a conflict of interest for me as I provide access to an online HQ video database of over 600 exercises (including all of the above and many more) to my clients. If you are interested in purchasing access to the database without becoming a client it is available for $100 / year.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        utfootball4 on #19311

        hey mike i know you guys had great success with this strength program but i am wondering what kind of increases with the pc/bsq/bp you guys got?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19312

        It depended on whether the athletes were strictly monitored. In Boo's group, he didn't micro-manage %s like I did and athletes tended to lift more as they felt. Those that had a good work ethic progressed very well as this type of setup can be a form of autoregulation on training loads. For example, if you just say 'lift heavy' athletes with a good work ethic will bust their butts in the weight room relative to what they have on a given day. My group was primarily women underclassmen and I felt more comfortable micromanaging the loads then leaving them to their own devices. I think most women tend to be too passive in the weight room, especially newbies. As a whole my group had significantly bigger strength gains but if you take out those who didn't push themselves from the upperclassmen group the gains would be about the same. One thing to note though is that Boo actually deemphasized strength development a little bit with the seniors…

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        utfootball4 on #19313

        It depended on whether the athletes were strictly monitored. In Boo's group, he didn't micro-manage %s like I did and athletes tended to lift more as they felt. Those that had a good work ethic progressed very well as this type of setup can be a form of autoregulation on training loads. For example, if you just say 'lift heavy' athletes with a good work ethic will bust their butts in the weight room relative to what they have on a given day. My group was primarily women underclassmen and I felt more comfortable micromanaging the loads then leaving them to their own devices. I think most women tend to be too passive in the weight room, especially newbies. As a whole my group had significantly bigger strength gains but if you take out those who didn't push themselves from the upperclassmen group the gains would be about the same. One thing to note though is that Boo actually deemphasized strength development a little bit with the seniors…

        ok thanks mike because i have a triple jumper and i really want to work on incresing his strength numbers in the pc/sq/bp and as you know there are many diff ways to do that westside etc, i use the 3 strength days and 2 bb circuits last fall with a jumper and really didnt see much strength gains in numbers but at the sametime the %'s and other factors could have been better to allow the gains to take place.  i would like to try the 3 strength days and circuits this fall but be a little more aggressive with the %'s.

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        utfootball4 on #19314

        hey mike are the BB circuits a staple in Ur in season plan, i never done them so I'm wondering about the whole recovery aspect from the volume?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19315

        Because of logistical and facility issues they are less a part than I would ideally like. We are able to do them once a week. Ideally I would use them 2-3 times per week. Right now, I replace the circuits with more general strength work, low intensity medball work, and even some low intensity jumps circuits. When I was using them heavily I actually found that after the initial 3-4 weeks of use that they facilitated recovery do to their effect on enhancing endocrine profile.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        J Kilgore on #19316

        Mike,
        how about during outdoors?  still 2-3 times a week? and for both long and short sprinters?

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        utfootball4 on #19317

        Because of logistical and facility issues they are less a part than I would ideally like. We are able to do them once a week. Ideally I would use them 2-3 times per week. Right now, I replace the circuits with more general strength work, low intensity medball work, and even some low intensity jumps circuits. When I was using them heavily I actually found that after the initial 3-4 weeks of use that they facilitated recovery do to their effect on enhancing endocrine profile.

        thanks mike i was just making sure since i have never use them myself and usually high volume stuff really make my legs tired.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19318

        Mike,
        how about during outdoors?  still 2-3 times a week? and for both long and short sprinters?

        During outdoors 0-2 times per week. No difference between long and short sprinters.

        ELITETRACK Founder

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19319

        thanks mike i was just making sure since i have never use them myself and usually high volume stuff really make my legs tired.

        It can, especially initially. It's important to introduce it early on so that you have moved past all potentially detrimental (but short-term) affects and have started to reap the positive affects by the competitive season. Also, don't try to push around big weights on the circuits. Some of my hyper-motivated athletes (one of whom is a member on this board) try to do this and it always leads to overtraining. In some ways, you almost need to just 'go through the motions.'

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        utfootball4 on #19320

        [quote author="utfootball4" date="1152815848"]
        thanks mike i was just making sure since i have never use them myself and usually high volume stuff really make my legs tired.

        It can, especially initially. It's important to introduce it early on so that you have moved past all potentially detrimental (but short-term) affects and have started to reap the positive affects by the competitive season. Also, don't try to push around big weights on the circuits. Some of my hyper-motivated athletes (one of whom is a member on this board) try to do this and it always leads to overtraining. In some ways, you almost need to just 'go through the motions.'
        [/quote]

        yes i totally agree i will start early fall and will use no more then 65lbs for movements like lunges and presses etc so by jan its just a recovery workout.  with the above jumpers program you posted above is this only jumpers or how the sprinters strength train also?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19321

        The workout I posted above was what was done with the jumpers at LSU. The LSU sprinters do similar circuits in a very similar fashion.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        utfootball4 on #19322

        The workout I posted above was what was done with the jumpers at LSU. The LSU sprinters do similar circuits in a very similar fashion.

        ok i was just curious bc i dont think Coach Henry use them at AM.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19323

        Pat coached the men's sprints @ LSU; Shaver coached the women when Pat was there and now he coaches both. Pat didn't use as much strength work with his sprinters.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        utfootball4 on #19324

        Pat coached the men's sprints @ LSU; Shaver coached the women when Pat was there and now he coaches both. Pat didn't use as much strength work with his sprinters.

        yeh i understand that, the last time i spoke to Vince Anderson he use a very similar method  with his short sprinters as lsu but without the bb circuits.

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        benny-the-jet-rodriguez on #19325

        https://stackmagazine.com/Content/Site012/Articles/05_01_2005/LouisianaStateJ_00000003645.pdf

        I was looking for some videos by Boo the other day and I came across this lifting template.  Mike, since you worked with him I was hoping you'd be able to answer a few questions about it for me. 

        During what phase would a week like this occur? 

        I assumed the Tuesday and Thursday bodybuilding workouts were, for lack of a better term, "tempo" lifting days.  Is that a good way to describe them and at what type of intensity should they be performed?  Are they done in circuit fashion or are both sets of each exercise done together? 

        Judging by the lifting Iâ??m assuming Monday, Wednesday, Friday are high intensity days (on the track) for this week.  Am I right?

        Thanks in advance

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19326

        During what phase would a week like this occur?

        That is pre-comp for sure.

        I assumed the Tuesday and Thursday bodybuilding workouts were, for lack of a better term, "tempo" lifting days.  Is that a good way to describe them and at what type of intensity should they be performed?

        Yes that would be an accurate description. 

        Are they done in circuit fashion or are both sets of each exercise done together? 

        That varies. Sometimes the exercises are done in sequence other times the sets are done in sequence.

        Judging by the lifting Iâ??m assuming Monday, Wednesday, Friday are high intensity days (on the track) for this week.  Am I right?

        Yes. You are correct.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        benny-the-jet-rodriguez on #19327

        [quote author="Benny The Jet Rodriguez" date="1170729201"]
        During what phase would a week like this occur?

        That is pre-comp for sure.

        I assumed the Tuesday and Thursday bodybuilding workouts were, for lack of a better term, "tempo" lifting days.  Is that a good way to describe them and at what type of intensity should they be performed?

        Yes that would be an accurate description. 

        Are they done in circuit fashion or are both sets of each exercise done together? 

        That varies. Sometimes the exercises are done in sequence other times the sets are done in sequence.

        Judging by the lifting I’m assuming Monday, Wednesday, Friday are high intensity days (on the track) for this week.  Am I right?

        Yes. You are correct.
        [/quote]Awsome.  Thanks man.

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        utfootball4 on #19328

        hey mike could you explain whats going on with the squat/spilt squat depth in the video?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIUVg0Rf2eE

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19329

        This thread was primarily about what Boo did / does with the jumps and multi-eventers. They typically squat much deeper (below parallel) and do very wide split squats.

        Dennis who coaches the sprinters (including X) doesn't squat as deep (at least not for the majority of the year) and while the lifting frequency and volume is about the same as the jumps / multi-eventers, there seems to be less emphasis on the intensity. 

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Derrick Brito on #19330

        mike, how much tempo you do with these circuits?  do you use circuits as tempo or do them on top of tempo?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19331

        mike, how much tempo you do with these circuits?  do you use circuits as tempo or do them on top of tempo?

        For the jumps group, tempo is only done on Saturday (Intensive) other than the multi-eventers who might do another Intensive Tempo session in the middle of the week later in the year. The sprinters do considerably more tempo (mostly extensive) often on the same days as the weight circuits.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        mortac8 on #19332

        Dennis who coaches the sprinters (including X) doesn't squat as deep (at least not for the majority of the year) and while the lifting frequency and volume is about the same as the jumps / multi-eventers, there seems to be less emphasis on the intensity. 

        Should sprinters squat deep?  What are the advantages/disadvantages of not squatting deep for a 100/200/400 guy?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19333

        Should sprinters squat deep?  What are the advantages/disadvantages of not squatting deep for a 100/200/400 guy?

        I think deep squatting is important for a couple reasons:
        *greater endocrine response due to more muscle recruitment.
        *greater hamstring and glute recruitment.
        *similar positions to that achieved in the 'set' position of a block start.
        *strength in extreme, or ranges outside of normal sport, ranges of motion.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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