More on Olympic Lifts

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  • Carl Valle
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    Carl Valle on #15487

    Olympic lifters that cannot jump?? Come on Carl you know that 99% of the Oly lifters at the Olympics an jump. You don’t need a study to tell you that. If they look fast around the bar and quickly drop under to receive it then surely you will agree that they can jump. Watch a video of Taner Sagir missing a Snatch at the ’08 Olympics and watch how far he leaps out of the way during the

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    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #79688

    What is up with this quoting people and putting it on the front page of the site bullshit..its un-called for.

    Put this on the front page!

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    utfootball4 on #79690

    What is up with this quoting people and putting it on the front page of the site bullshit..its un-called for.

    Put this on the front page!

    CFKA has a great point that I will need to time to address later. I will quote him so people can be refreshed or see what the topic is about. I like CFKA as a coach and person and citing his comments are just ways to keep people updated on what we are talking about.

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    Chad Williams on #79691

    I don’t think Carl is meaning to “call you out” when he puts a quote on the front page. I have been quoted twice and both times the discussion has varied from the original topic, thus warranting a new topic anyway. Honestly, I think Carl likes the challenge of delving deeper into an off-shoot of the topic and re-inforcing his point of view and how he came to his conclusion. It doesn’t necessarily mean that I agree with him, but he keeps me and others thinking.

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    burkhalter on #79692

    I don’t think Carl’s tone is condescending or argumentative. Look forward to jumping into this discussion after work.

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    tothetop on #79693

    Shouldnt the fact that in olympic lifting we use our hips/legs to move the bar and in jumping we use our hips/legs to move our own bodies be a factor in deciding the effectiveness of olympic lifting for vertical jump? This is rarely talked about. It is because of this, that olympic lifting can only be a general means to improving the standard vertical jump. It engages the same muscle groups in similar joint angles, but ultimately, the goal in mind is completely different. If one wants to get good at jumping, get stronger for their bodyweight, jump with various resistances (dbs, barbells, bands, etc), and jump without resistance. Olympic lifts are not magic. The best players in the world in many sports have never touched a barbell. Take soccer for example, Ronaldinho, Zidane, even a player with extreme acceleration, Messi, they never olympic lift. Perhaps coaches need something to offer that most other people cant, something complicated that looks cool like the olympic lifts. University of Pitt does no olympic lifting and look at the performances of basketball and football this year.

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    JeremyRichmond on #79700

    I don’t think Carl’s tone is condescending or argumentative. Look forward to jumping into this discussion after work.

    From the global community let’s hope “work” prospects trend upwards.
    Enough of the emotional stuff. Now its time to bore you all.

    McBride et al. (1999) JSCR: A comparison of strength and power characteristics between power lifters, Olympic lifters, and sprinters. (Std deviations not included)
    Power lifters Olympic lifters Sprinters
    Age 24.1 20.2 19.8
    Height 173.9cm 172cm 182.1cm
    Weight 78.2kg 85.3kg 76.9kg
    Years of training 4.8 3.1 3.8
    Max squat 225kg 245kg 210kg
    Jump height 39.7cm 48.2cm 49.9cm

    Peak velocity was higher than power lifters but the same between Olympic lifters and sprinters for countermovement jump with body weight, with 20kg, and with 40kg.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #79701

    Shouldnt the fact that in olympic lifting we use our hips/legs to move the bar and in jumping we use our hips/legs to move our own bodies be a factor in deciding the effectiveness of olympic lifting for vertical jump? This is rarely talked about. It is because of this, that olympic lifting can only be a general means to improving the standard vertical jump. It engages the same muscle groups in similar joint angles, but ultimately, the goal in mind is completely different. If one wants to get good at jumping, get stronger for their bodyweight, jump with various resistances (dbs, barbells, bands, etc), and jump without resistance. Olympic lifts are not magic. The best players in the world in many sports have never touched a barbell. Take soccer for example, Ronaldinho, Zidane, even a player with extreme acceleration, Messi, they never olympic lift. Perhaps coaches need something to offer that most other people cant, something complicated that looks cool like the olympic lifts. University of Pitt does no olympic lifting and look at the performances of basketball and football this year.

    I do like the clean..but i actually agree with you also. Jumps with varying resistance, no resistance, and negative resistance will achieve the same or probably better results than with OL’s.

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    burkhalter on #79705

    I could see Oly lifters needing a good deal of coaching to perform well in shorter sprints but I would not be the least bit surprised if the middle class guys went through some “combine” training and blasted off some freaky 40’s. Also would not be surprised if Percy Harvin or Reggie Bush or Brian Cushing, after some good coaching, were very good lifters.

    From all I have read I am not sold on Yessis being much more than a translator. He talks in circles a lot in my opinion.

    What sold me on Oly Lifts was observing Nik’s training and seeing how he recently had a very large increase in his power clean after already having a highly developed power clean and he was doing very few sets of power cleans compared to an Oly Lifters training. So the stimulus for that to improve so much had to come from a combination of other training variables (sprints, jumps and probably some of the other lifts). In other words, given sound technique, it is probably very possible to increase even the competition lifts with lesser volume but using more sprints, jumps and throws. In fact, I would say it is “proven” that this is possible. Supposedly the Russian lifters jumped and ran, I know the Chinese run stairs, jog and sprint at least occasionally, based on video of the national team. I also know at least some junior lifters in at least one province in China do jumps. Of course the Bulgarians thought it ridiculous that the Russians ran and jumped so who knows. I personally feel, whether wrongly or rightly, the opposite would be true as well. With sound sprint technique and a substantial increase in an Olympic Lift I would believe that short sprint performance would likely increase. Of course they are simply a tool to be used for athletic development and not necessary. They do seem easier to quantify than a loaded jump would be however, and they are just fun and cool to do.

    If you can teach them and the athlete is committed to learning them then why not use the tool. If that is not the case use something else to train those qualities.

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    dan1990 on #79708

    [quote author="tothetop" date="1237592410"]Shouldnt the fact that in olympic lifting we use our hips/legs to move the bar and in jumping we use our hips/legs to move our own bodies be a factor in deciding the effectiveness of olympic lifting for vertical jump? This is rarely talked about. It is because of this, that olympic lifting can only be a general means to improving the standard vertical jump. It engages the same muscle groups in similar joint angles, but ultimately, the goal in mind is completely different. If one wants to get good at jumping, get stronger for their bodyweight, jump with various resistances (dbs, barbells, bands, etc), and jump without resistance. Olympic lifts are not magic. The best players in the world in many sports have never touched a barbell. Take soccer for example, Ronaldinho, Zidane, even a player with extreme acceleration, Messi, they never olympic lift. Perhaps coaches need something to offer that most other people cant, something complicated that looks cool like the olympic lifts. University of Pitt does no olympic lifting and look at the performances of basketball and football this year.

    I do like the clean..but i actually agree with you also. Jumps with varying resistance, no resistance, and negative resistance will achieve the same or probably better results than with OL’s.[/quote]

    Ol with resistance jumps would achieve even better results…Whenever my powerclean has gone up my speed and jumps have increased…BTW alot of soccer teams in europe lift now they have been for the last few years…so they could be doing Ol lifts..a few english premiership teams do OL lift…

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    tothetop on #79709

    Can you please tell me where you got the information about the soccer teams lifting? Thanks. I dont doubt they work, I use them, I know they work. But i think they work as a general means, in other words, they only work when you jump also, or sprint also. They are inherently explosive as is always said… I dont know, every tests is promising about the olifts versus anything else( power lifting and plyos), but a study needs to be done versus jump squats. Then ill be sold and bow down to ol forever. I almost did that study for my thesis but advisors recommended against it. Now Im doing this boring bone study under a professor.

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    dan1990 on #79710

    Can you please tell me where you got the information about the soccer teams lifting? Thanks. I dont doubt they work, I use them, I know they work. But i think they work as a general means, in other words, they only work when you jump also, or sprint also. They are inherently explosive as is always said… I dont know, every tests is promising about the olifts versus anything else( power lifting and plyos), but a study needs to be done versus jump squats. Then ill be sold and bow down to ol forever. I almost did that study for my thesis but advisors recommended against it. Now Im doing this boring bone study under a professor.

    the info about teams lifting in the english premiership is common knowledge over here all premiership teams have a state of the art gym…patrice evra man utd fc profile….i dont really know what type of weight training they do…evra worked alot on his jumping ability….but i know they work alot on upper body strength…in the summer players from west brom fc (premiership team) were doing powerclean i seen this on tv…

    https://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={FE60904B-C2A8-4E60-9B05-700DBBC29BBC}&bioid=91915&section=playerProfile&page=2

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