Mechanism of fatigue in the 100m dash…

Posted In: The Classics

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        jjh999 on #8314

        Ok, I figured I’d christen this forum since I’ve been lurking for a while…

        As Mike knows, I have a strong interest in further elucidating the mechanism of fatigue in the 100m dash.

        I have a strong suspicion (and I believe others share it) that the etiology of the fatigue has less to do with lactate (old-school thinking) and is much more a question of “bioelectricity”. I think that the fatigue is either occuring peripherally/post-synaptically at the level of the Na+/K+ pump or centrally/pre-synaptically-decreased neural drive.

        My own personal bias (with no data to support it) has been that it could be a firing rate problem. From that stance, I think that the problem could be in the refractory state of the Na+/K+ pump at the neuromuscular juntion. As maximum velocity is reached, the Na+/K+ pump is unable to maintain a bioelectrical gradient across the cell membrane and therefore unable to propagate an action potential.

        If that is true (which is a HUGE if), then why are the pumps “failing”? Insufficient ATP to drive the pumps? Not enough pumps?

        I’m interested to hear your thoughts. I know we have some great minds out there, so let’s have at it…

        (…I know, I know…more decaf…):)

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19414

        JJ-
        How many times do I have to tell you….decaf is the one of the devil’s tools to keep us unproductive….drink as much coffee as you like! :D.

        Here’s what I’m thinking as of tonight…..I don’t think we can totally discount lactate as a source of fatigue (I’m not talking about soreness and lactate which is a whole other issue). In fact, I think lactate may play a role in fatigue but not as is commonly thought. Several studies have even shown a clear link between lactic acid accumulation and fatigue. However, I don’t think it’s the lactate itself that causes the fatigue but rather the chemical environment that the lactate accumulation creates. I can think of two ways lactate could possibly hinder muscle function. In the first possibility, an increased lactate concentration would cause a decrease in pH (increase in H+ concentration). The increase in H+ ions might hinder the excitation-coupling process by decreasing Ca++ released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum and possibly interfere with Ca++ and troponin binding (which wouldn’t be too far from your idea). In the other possibility, increased H+ concentration might inhibit enzyme activities that are important for anaerobic glycolysis. This would in turn reduce the ATP available for immediate energy.

        I’ll think about it some more later…..I need to go home now though.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Todd Lane on #19415

        Mike
        I’m no damn scientiest like kebba, but,,

        In the other possibility, increased H+ concentration might inhibit enzyme activities that are important for anaerobic glycolysis. This would in turn reduce the ATP available for immediate energy.

        is this impairment of enzymes, also same impairment of enzymes that will affect acetylcholine from being recycled at neuromuscular junction?

        still doesn’t answer question, just curious.

        thanks.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19416

        Todd-
        Consider yourself a quasi-scientist or even an honorary scientist because that was exactly what I was thinking.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        jjh999 on #19417

        Hey Scientists,

        I think that you are referring to acetlycholinesterase as the enzyme that recycles ACh…

        I need to look this up, but I don’t think that over a 10s period that ACh levels would drop by a degree that muscular contraction speed would decrease. That enzyme is pretty plentiful and I have a hunch that H+ ion levels would need to be higher or elevated for a longer period of time before you witness the deformation of the enzyme binding sites for ligands or cofactors. I think that decreased effectiveness of acetylcholinesterase may be an issue after about 30-40s of sprinting, though…

        I need to pull out the neuromusc. phys. text so I speak more intelligently…

        🙂

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19418

        I wrote Dan Pfaff and asked what he thought about this question since he’s coached quite a few decent 100m guys (that’s a huge understatement if you don’t know who he’s coached). Here’s his reply:


        I am positive that it is neurochemical and or pathway propagation problems……Your hypothesis is and has been looked at by some of the leading researchers in this area but alas technology limits hinder the exploration. Pumps fail because of osmotic gradient environments and or ion concentration levels……….despite the lack of concrete answers I think this track is correct so the ergonomic solution is to build bigger batteries and develope additional pathways and routing mechanisms……….I think the same thoughts and never drink coffee after noon……..dan

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        lumberjack on #19419

        [i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
        despite the lack of concrete answers I think this track is correct so the ergonomic solution is to build bigger batteries and develope additional pathways and routing mechanisms……..dan[/i]

        Interesting question JJ. That is about the answer I expected from Dan. Now the obvious next question is what are the best methods of building a bigger ‘battery’?

        I would think the simplest and most direct method would be to ensure that you are working on maximum velocity sprints in that time frame of 8-12 seconds or from 80 to 120m as the racing season approaches. But are there other forms of training that could have some carryover?

        At one point in my running career, when I ran 10.56/20.90, I worked on all of the parts of the 100m in isolation but not the whole thing except during races. For example my speed work consisted of isolated work on top end (max velocity with a long easy buildup), Accelerations up to 30m, and maximum speed runs mainly around 150m. When I trained like this I found I could have strong sections of 100m races, but I could never put a whole run together.

        When my training had more work at maximum speed between 60 and 120m I felt like I could run the 100m from start to finish and my times dropped to 10.37 and interestingly enough my 200m time also improved to 20.51 without running anything beyond 120m in training.

        Granted some of these improvements were due to some technical changes implemented by Dan Pfaff and my coach Stu McMillan. But I really feel that once I regularly included that type of work between 60 and 120m I could ‘run the whole 100m race’. As if I could open the throttle and keep it open longer.

        Does anyone have any more ideas of how you could ‘build bigger batteries and develope additional pathways and routing mechanisms’ other than the obvious putting in more work in that specific time frame of max effort for 8-12 seconds?

      • Carl Valle
        Participant
        Carl Valle on #19420

        Any shift to improve a neurochemical/enzyme repsonse is based on on two primary training paths. One is increase the intensity of the stimulus, and the other is to increase the tolerance to the fatigue of race conditions. Dan suggests we do the following.

        (1) Create a bigger battery
        (2) Add more wires from the existing battery

        I agree with this statement since tollerance is an addaptation to 80-140m work. Speed endurance is a well known training aspect but nobody can explain how it works well enought beyond just stating the obvious. Take a look of some of the research of antalopes. They are running at near speads of 68 mph and maintain that speed far longer then a cheetah (minutes vs seconds). I don’t think it is all neurochemical, perhaps a part the old school lactate theory has some influence since the onset of that byproduct can be changed based on 3 factors.

        (1) Antagonist relaxation- allowing the fibers to rebound instead of contracting the whole time. This can be learned from both coaching and repetitiion.

        (2) The power shift of having a better strength to weight ratio from general and specific means.

        (3) The lactate shift from acceleration work, speed, and speed endurance work.

        After listening to Dan speak I felt that the nervous system can be improved by a carefull balance of various submaximal contractions such as medball throws, cleans, and jump training. This will expand the battery “envelope” so that such high velocity runs can resist fatigue.

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        Kebba Tolbert on #19421

        Originally posted by Lumberjack

        Does anyone have any more ideas of how you could ‘build bigger batteries and develope additional pathways and routing mechanisms’ other than the obvious putting in more work in that specific time frame of max effort for 8-12 seconds?

        given my experience i think that a few of the following (by themselves, but even more so in the “right combination) can make hug differences in the manifestation of fatigue in sprints/hiurdlles.

        1) we all know that elastic energy is cheaper and more efficient. so training that promotes the ability to “endure” (used very loosely) elastically is crucial. this is why i really like to do endurance bounding in various modes and volumes throughout the year.

        it’s impt to remember that posture plays a *hugh* role in how elastic force is generated and used so sometimes simply by correcting errorsa here you get a gain in terms of the abiility to sustain high level efforts.

        i think that Glenn’s thoughts about “longer” runs is interesting in that by doing stuff from 60-120 it can help teach you how to wait and what to do. if you’re doing competetive 70’s or 90’s or 120’s and you blow your wad too soon you just suffer the last 1/3 or so. so some of the longer runs force you to distribute evenly and progressively because of the price you have to pay (physically and psychologically if you don’t)

        [i remember Leroy Burrell commenting at a clinic about SMTC practices – “if you came out and were playing around or weren’t on top of your game you’d simply get embarassed”}

        2) wt room – the firing rates, angular changes, postural demands, timing considerations, psychological pressure (getting pysched up to move a heavy, challenging load) can be huge here. So even though everyone says that the loads and speed of movement are too slow to be specific there’s a lot of stuff going on that building capacity to withstand the challenges of sprints/hurdles. there are a bunch of diff capacities required in the sprints and a lot of it can be addressed in the wt room in at least a remedial fashion.

        i think that the “bigger battery” theory is huge… it’s similar to the “energy envelope” theory that was being discussed on Charlie’s website last summer

        so bigger battery/bigger envelope to me is creating more potentiall… gotta run to practice, but will post more on this later.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19422

        Clemson welcome to the board. I didn’t quite follow what you said in your last post. Specifically, this statement……

        [i]Originally posted by Clemson[/i]
        I don’t think it is all neurochemical, perhaps a part iold school lactate since the onset of that byproduct can be changed based on 3 factors…….

        Did you think lactate is a possible cause or is not a cause?

        ELITETRACK Founder

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19423

        I don’t really think we can so much train to increase our elastic qualities as we can teach (in an obviously implicit manner) to take advantage of the potential elastic properties of the musculo-tendinous unit. From my understanding the elastic properties of the muscle-tendon unit should be somewhat fixed. Small gains may be seen in:

        1. The ability to sustain / handle quasi-static muscular contractions under high loads and velocities.

        2. Soft tissue remodelling to create tendons that respond more elastically to a given force vector.

        Overall though I think the most beneficial gains would be in training or teaching an individual to tap into the elastic energy (reliance on tendon elasticity but dependent on muscular quasi-static strength) rather than relying on muscular contraction to produce force.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Kebba Tolbert on #19424

        [i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
        I don’t really think we can so much train to increase our elastic qualities as we can teach (in an obviously implicit manner) to take advantage of the potential elastic properties of the musculo-tendinous unit. ……Overall though I think the most beneficial gains would be in training or teaching an individual to tap into the elastic energy (reliance on tendon elasticity but dependent on muscular quasi-static strength) rather than relying on muscular contraction to produce force.

        i think we’re basically thinking along the same lines, you just worded it better:)

      • Carl Valle
        Participant
        Carl Valle on #19425

        Mike, I think that lactate is part of the fatigue formula, but I am eager to see what biochemical pathways and neuropeptide channels cause the loss of power at the end of the race. Is is something we can train besides sprinting, or is a general element that can be worked on by many different submax aspects? This thead rexamines a old concept with a far different light.

        CNS fatigue is like what lactate work was in the 70s and early 80’s. Getting closer to better answers.

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        jjh999 on #19426

        Hey guys,

        I’m on the road right now, so I just skimmed the responses, but they look fantastic. I’m going to talk to Dan today (in Austin) and hopefully get more of his thoughts re: building a better battery.

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        carson on #19427

        Very interesting topic. I am skeptical about big pH changes in the muscle over 8-10 seconds, and think many of the points made so far are worth looking into.

        What has always fascinated me is that when one looks at energy systems from an old school perspective, the 200m really throws a wrench into the theory of ATP-CP pool, pH changes etc.

        Look at Lumberjack´s post. 10.37 and 20.51. Then look at Mennea´s 200m record – 19.72, and MJ at 19.32. Don´t know how fast MJ and Mennea were over 100m, but I doubt that Mennea was much faster than 10.00.

        I have no answers, but the 200m seems to make this topic even more challenging.

        I tend to think along the lines of neurotransmitters, harnessing and utilizing elastic energy, and maintaining coordination and rhythm.

        Charlie Francis has also discussed breathing pattern changes later in a 100m and how they may affect the speed curve.

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        Kebba Tolbert on #19428

        100m PR’s are not always the best indicators however. We often don’t see athletes run 100s when they’re in great 200 shape. But even in cases where they do some athletes just don’t have the acceleration capacity to be top-notch (medalists) over 100m but have very similar top speed and speed endurance capacity.

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        carson on #19429

        Good point! I still think that the `time limits´ or fatigue factors are still hard to understand when looking at the 200m.

        I don´t know how much one can credit to pacing when one is running sub 20. I guess I am asking what contributes to speed endurance and how does it affect the last 20-30 m of the 100.

        What qualities do the 200 specialists (or better 200 sprinters vs their 100m) have that 100m guys don´t (in terms of maintaining after the bend)?

        Lumberjack posted that he improved his 200 with 60 to 120m work, not lactate training.

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        jjh999 on #19430

        Hey guys…this is an interesting abstract regarding the relationship of Na+/K+ pump concentration to muscular endurance. The study was performed in skiers, but it might provide some more food for thought and discussion…

        Link to abstract

      • Carl Valle
        Participant
        Carl Valle on #19431

        I don’t want to talk about doping, but the use of EPO to increase red blood cells in the 100m seemed to be overkill to me but could a better O2 transport medium help shift the lactate curve?

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        carson on #19432

        I don´t know if better O2 transport would help in actual sprinting – it is probably just too slow (aerobic glycolysis). But it may help in recovery and allow better training.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19433

        I agree with Carson.

        ELITETRACK Founder

      • Carl Valle
        Participant
        Carl Valle on #19434

        I don´t know if better O2 transport would help in actual sprinting – it is probably just too slow (aerobic glycolysis). But it may help in recovery and allow better training.

        I agreed at first carson but ATP can regenerate in minutes! If a better O2 environment can help better training via recovery, why is that? If something needs to be recovered then it was stressed in the first place! Perhaps a certain level of aerobic fitness is needed to rewire the battery? Why take a risk with EPO from a health stance if you can get the same results with tempo runs? If a better O2 transport can improve training (therefore later performances) why isn’t that a fatigue factor?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19435

        I’ve just added an article to the site which might answer this last question as it pertains to the 100m (and possibly 200m / 400m). Here’s an excerpt from the article….

        We conclude that maximal metabolic power outputs during sprinting are not limited by rates of anearobic metabolism and that human speed is larely independent of aerobic power during all-out runs of 60-s or less.

        See the full article here:

        ELITETRACK Founder

      • Carl Valle
        Participant
        Carl Valle on #19436

        sedentary subjects…..:?:

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19437

        Carl-
        Three of their four subjects were "competitive runners" who were in training and all four subjects were "accustomed to vigorous exercise" and had experience "sprinting to exhaustion." While the four participants almost certainly weren't Ato, Maurice, Jon, and Bernard, this is a better than average subject pool based on the fact that they could run at close to 8 m/s up an 8 degree incline for close to 30 seconds. It would have been nice however if they would have had more participants.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        mr-magoo on #19438

        I don't know where I heard this, but I'm firly sure MJ's 100m pb is somewhere in the region of 10.02-10.10. I'm not entirely sure if this equates to him running 19.32 but it sure as hell helps!!!

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19439

        I believe his 100m PR was 10.08 but I think he only ran it a handful of times during his pro career. He was almost certainly capable of running sub-10 as his first 200m in his WR was 10.10 (I think) and that was around a curve.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        mr-magoo on #19440

        Interesting article JJ!
        So if an increase in pump concentration means better endurance as a result of lifting, how do you guys think this relates to sprinting, and is this another variable to put into the fatigue conundrum?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19441

        I don't want to speak for JJ, but the last time I spoke to him about this it seemed as if he thought weightlifting studies couldn't apply to sprinting because of the very fast, on-off cyclic nature of the contractions in sprinting as opposed to the longer duration contractions of lifting. JJ?

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        coachformerlyknownas on #19442

        Boys,

        Excellent reading.

        Been gone (San Diego) and since back am trying to catch up.
        Kids got smoked by DI and OTC athletes. Was oddly a little fun seeing them find out where they really stand in the greater world of T & F.

        JJ, what did you get from Dan P on that question? And as far as sprint/weight compare/contrast, I'd have to agree. The constant challenge is finding training modalities that approximate event performance but at a fraction of the time/distance/intensity/etc….

      • Carl Valle
        Participant
        Carl Valle on #19443

        History…..anyone up for case studies on the elite guys? This will shed better light then Sarah from Netwon (Harvard study) sedentary to me is non compeditive.

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        jjh999 on #19444

        Dave,

        Dan gave me a response like, "I'm still trying to figure it out myself". You know how he can be like Yoda with his responses at times.

        [i]Originally posted by coachformerlyknownas…[/i]
        Boys,

        Excellent reading.

        Been gone (San Diego) and since back am trying to catch up.
        Kids got smoked by DI and OTC athletes. Was oddly a little fun seeing them find out where they really stand in the greater world of T & F.

        JJ, what did you get from Dan P on that question? And as far as sprint/weight compare/contrast, I'd have to agree. The constant challenge is finding training modalities that approximate event performance but at a fraction of the time/distance/intensity/etc….

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        Kebba Tolbert on #19445

        in light of the new world record i thought that i would attach this file for people to analyze.. it seems in comparison to some of the late 80's – mid 90's runs that the trend is more and more towards entire race management. it's interesting to look at the following as well

        Ostrava                 Kingston           Athens
        3.85                     3.85                 3.83
        6.42 (2.57)           6.41  (2.57)      6.39 (2.56)
        8.10 (1.68)           8.10  (1.69)      8.07  (1.68)
        9.85 (1.75)           9.84 (1.74)       9.77  (1.70)

        once i figure out how to attachments in this new forum i'll add it on.

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        Daniel Andrews on #19446

        Wow, incredible.  I have a theory that myosin ATPase might be a limiting factor here, probably wrong about this, but I know that Elite distance runners have greater ATPase activity in their Type I fibers as some untrained individuals have in their in type IIb fibers, giving their type I muscle fibers the ability to contract faster than those of the untrained type IIb.  My hypothesis is that either the type IIb fibers need to endure more or type IIa and type I fibers need to be trained to have greater ATPase concentrations.  I am going to do some research tomorrow, i hope the library has the neccesarry journals.

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        Daniel Andrews on #19447

        Gathering what I could muster so far.

        For 100m Meters these all present a problem

        1. Na+-K+ pumps

        2. Ca+2-ATPase release from SR

        3. ATP/ADP/Pi ratios  -> Pi is inorganic phosphate for those with limited scientific background.

        The 100m sprint requires almost exclusive use of the phosphagen energy system, therefore I don't think lactate is a problem here with respect to fatigue in 100m sprints.  Replinishment of the phosphate ratios would seem the key here (bigger batteries).  How can this be attained and maintained?  One way I think is something I was hassled about early on as not speed training (max V or accel), but short speed endurance in using ladders 30-40-50-60 with 30-45 seconds rest in between.  I think these ladders help teach race management.

        ktolbert brings up a good point about entire race management.  A wild guess here is that the first time is at 30m, second at 60, third at 80, and 4th at 100.  With that information Powell held .85s/10m for 70 meters and in a different thread mike spoke about Powell's amazing speed-endurance.  Although I would like to see his splits over each of the 10 10m intervals he ran.

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        jjh999 on #19448

        Gathering what I could muster so far.

        For 100m Meters these all present a problem

        1. Na+-K+ pumps

        2. Ca+2-ATPase release from SR

        3. ATP/ADP/Pi ratios  -> Pi is inorganic phosphate for those with limited scientific background.

        The 100m sprint requires almost exclusive use of the phosphagen energy system, therefore I don't think lactate is a problem here with respect to fatigue in 100m sprints.  Replinishment of the phosphate ratios would seem the key here (bigger batteries).  How can this be attained and maintained?  One way I think is something I was hassled about early on as not speed training (max V or accel), but short speed endurance in using ladders 30-40-50-60 with 30-45 seconds rest in between.  I think these ladders help teach race management.

        ktolbert brings up a good point about entire race management.  A wild guess here is that the first time is at 30m, second at 60, third at 80, and 4th at 100.  With that information Powell held .85s/10m for 70 meters and in a different thread mike spoke about Powell's amazing speed-endurance.  Although I would like to see his splits over each of the 10 10m intervals he ran.

        Danimal,

        Thanks for reviving a pretty much dead thread. 

        I agree (as do most others) that phosphate may be the issue, but I believe it goes deeper.  Chiefly, I have always wondered if  the fatigue is above the level of the cross-bridge, rather at the ability of the Na+/K+ to come out of refraction to initiate the action potentials at the same rate prior to the commencement of the sprint.

        Also, Danimal, the Itallians used the "short speed endurance ladders" as you called it with success in the past…I think I posted something about this a LONG time ago.  I've personally used 2-3x3x60m with 90s rep rest, 5 min. set rest with success.  Wrecks your neuromuscular system.  Don't expect to get any quality done within 72 hrs of a similar session.

        KT, regarding race management, I think that it is simply an improvement (or an increased emphasis) on the quality of the acceleration phase as of late, combined with the appropriate alactic endurance development. Also, it could just be part of the normal improvement curve (which I think is more likely).

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        Daniel Andrews on #19449

        My personal experience with these short endurance speed ladders in my own training from 93-95 provided most excellent results.  I haven't been the same since then, mostly because I was a driving a desk, but my training during that period was almost exclusively that and the occasional endurance runs and intervals to make sure I kept my perfect physical fitness test score in the USMC.

        I believe the fatigue is at many levels.  The 3 levels I described above and also with Stretch-Reflex mechanisms.  Everything listed is trainable.  The question is how to best train for adaptability? 

        JJ, I like to revive the dead, especially when the dicussion is worthwhile.

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        Daniel Andrews on #19450

        Acta Phys circa 1998 there is an article that explains that the Na+/K+ pump is enhanced in endurance trained fibers regardless of fiber type. The downside for sprinters is in-season endurance training will have down regulation of Ca++/ATPase activity.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19451

        Acta Phys circa 1998 there is an article that explains that the Na+/K+ pump is enhanced in endurance trained fibers regardless of fiber type. The downside for sprinters is in-season endurance training will have down regulation of Ca++/ATPase activity.

        So as is always the case when trying to improve performance the key is in improving the limiting factor, in the case of short sprinters I still have not seen any convincing evidence to suggest that it is the activity of the Na+/K+ pumps.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Daniel Andrews on #19452

        So as is always the case when trying to improve performance the key is in improving the limiting factor, in the case of short sprinters I still have not seen any convincing evidence to suggest that it is the activity of the Na+/K+ pumps.

        I think it will be quite hard to get actual in vivo evidence done in research on humans.  It might be possible in other mammalians that we can isolate muscles during sprint type activity through electrical stimulation.

        I can envision tight coupling between Na+/K+ pumps, Ca++-ATPase activity, and ATP/ADP/PI ratios with regards to fatigue in 100m.

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        coachformerlyknownas on #19453

        …Also, Danimal, the Itallians used the "short speed endurance ladders" as you called it with success in the past…I think I posted something about this a LONG time ago. I've personally used 2-3x3x60m with 90s rep rest, 5 min. set rest with success. Wrecks your neuromuscular system. Don't expect to get any quality done within 72 hrs of a similar session…

        Had our sprinters do something quite similar for relay zone work and completely trashed them!  Big mistake! :no: Looking forward to subsequent days response in a 4×4 jaunt.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19454

        Let us know what the exact workout was, what level the athletes were, and how long you felt it took them to recover. Thanks-

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        coachformerlyknownas on #19455

        The athletes I work with are considered emerging talents that have recorded times of 10.9 (100m), 22.6 (200m) and 15.1 (110m) prior to this season.  With the exception of the hurdler, they are HS underclassmen.

        We pretty much have been stuck with outdoor workout temps of 46-51 with strong winds daily (southcoast MA).  From a fairly successful indoor season, consisting predominantly of short-long work, I opened the outdoor season with a long-short program (40s SE sprints) including hill acceleration work.

        Now in our 4th week, this is the second week where I have been doing relay zone work (60IN-40OUT).  Typically, the session consisted of 2 sets of 3 reps with 6 min recovery between reps and 15 min between set.  The microcycle would go: Mon/multi-stage warmup (with weights)-plyos-relay work, Tues/warmup-SE-extensive remedials, Wed/warmup-remedials-tempo runs, Thurs/multi-stage warmup (with weights)-relay work, Fri/warmup-tempo runs.  Extensive block work was added today after a very impressive 4×4 relay demo.

        We had a meet on Tuesday where the 10.9 sprinter ran 12.0 (-4.5mps) and the 22.6 athlete ran 24.1.  Granted they both ran into an aggressive headwind, however both mentioned that they experienced some problems in the race.

        I believed that the workout on Monday, specifically the zone sprints had more to do with it than the horizontal jumping prior to their races.  The zone practice was supposed to be submax.  However, they were flying in the exchange zone trying to go 2.1 and better.  By the time I caught up to them (working with others), they had already completed the workout.  Bang next day: track meet!

        Today, with Wednesday off, they both responded with fast and complete 400s, despite the weather.  The recovery from these sprints was so good, that we did some 20m block clearance/acceleration work.  It wasn't planned for them, but they jumped in and executed quite well.

        However Mike, I believe I made the mistake on Monday (regarding the choice of workout) falling prey to what I perceived as sufficient pre-comp conditioning-off of strong SpecEnd demos.  I supposed one working system (neuromuscular) was down enough to wreck havoc with for the complete organism?

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        Guest on #19456

        Great thread……

        Where is JJ!

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #19457

        Great thread……

        Where is JJ!

        JJ has been a lurker for the past 2 years….he's big time now and doesn't have the time to edify us mortals 😉

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        jjh999 on #19458

        [quote author="Fenix" date="1153616238"]
        Great thread……

        Where is JJ!

        JJ has been a lurker for the past 2 years….he's big time now and doesn't have the time to edify us mortals 😉

        [/quote]
        :bouncing:

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Kebba Tolbert on #19459

        run tell it on galilee, he lives 🙂

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