Loren Seagrave’s thoughts on Absolute Strength

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    sizerp on #93916

    [quote author="ktolbert" date="1263935784"]It’s *very* common for athletes at that level to lift 3x/week.

    My comment is fairly general and one could make an argument based on certain variables but I just don’t think that 48 hours is enough time to recover before a similar session can be repeated.

    I put one too many lower body strength workouts in the same ballpark as all the garbage miles distance runners do. They’ll feel better without it but are too afraid to find that out.[/quote]

    “lift 3x/week” does not hold enough information to be able to relate it with “similar session”.

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    star61 on #93917

    Being able to train 2, 3, or even 4 times a week depends on whether or not you’re splitting your workouts. If every workout is a full body workout and intensity is never varied, then twice per week is already a lot. If the training is split along body parts (two lower body and one upperbody) or intensity (one heavy, two moderate to light) then three days is easily doable, assuming you have the time.

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    sizerp on #93918

    Why would athletes do bodyparts?

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    star61 on #93919

    Why would athletes do bodyparts?

    By bodyparts, I mean splitting upper body from lower body. I’ve never been a fan of training the entire body in one session. I understand that in season or during maintainance phases it might be best, but if you’re trully trying to build strength and/or power at any level of intensity its not the best way to do it, IMHO.

    And while I realize many track and field athletes do train the whole body each session, there cam still be a split along intensity lines (high force-explosive power or heavy day-light day).

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    sizerp on #93920

    [quote author="Denis Eradiri (sizerp)" date="1263949556"]Why would athletes do bodyparts?

    By bodyparts, I mean splitting upper body from lower body. I’ve never been a fan of training the entire body in one session. I understand that in season or during maintainance phases it might be best, but if you’re trully trying to build strength and/or power at any level of intensity its not the best way to do it, IMHO.

    And while I realize many track and field athletes do train the whole body each session, there cam still be a split along intensity lines (high force-explosive power or heavy day-light day).[/quote]

    So if I do heavy squats followed by lighter snatches and end with push-presses, is that whole body?

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    Matt Norquist on #93932

    [quote author="Denis Eradiri (sizerp)" date="1263949556"]Why would athletes do bodyparts?

    By bodyparts, I mean splitting upper body from lower body. I’ve never been a fan of training the entire body in one session. I understand that in season or during maintainance phases it might be best, but if you’re trully trying to build strength and/or power at any level of intensity its not the best way to do it, IMHO.

    And while I realize many track and field athletes do train the whole body each session, there cam still be a split along intensity lines (high force-explosive power or heavy day-light day).[/quote]

    I’ve actually thought (for a while) that track athletes could learn from split session workouts used by Bodybuilders, Powerlifters, and others. Especially in GPP and (if needed) Hypertrophy periods of training.Personally, I do full body 3x per week, with High, Low, and then moderate intensity – and this seems sufficient for slow(ish) strength gains. I suspect doing more intelligent splits would actually yield bigger strength gains – but I would gain weight like crazy.

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    star61 on #93933

    [quote author="star61" date="1263952598"][quote author="Denis Eradiri (sizerp)" date="1263949556"]Why would athletes do bodyparts?

    By bodyparts, I mean splitting upper body from lower body. I’ve never been a fan of training the entire body in one session. I understand that in season or during maintainance phases it might be best, but if you’re trully trying to build strength and/or power at any level of intensity its not the best way to do it, IMHO.

    And while I realize many track and field athletes do train the whole body each session, there cam still be a split along intensity lines (high force-explosive power or heavy day-light day).[/quote]

    So if I do heavy squats followed by lighter snatches and end with push-presses, is that whole body?[/quote]If those are the only exercises you’re doing, I would say that would be a lower body contrast/complex session with an upper body accessory thrown in. If you’re just doing the three exercises, probably no need to split. If were doing heavy squats and heavy snatches, I would split on intensity.

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    star61 on #93934

    [quote author="star61" date="1263952598"][quote author="Denis Eradiri (sizerp)" date="1263949556"]Why would athletes do bodyparts?

    By bodyparts, I mean splitting upper body from lower body. I’ve never been a fan of training the entire body in one session. I understand that in season or during maintainance phases it might be best, but if you’re trully trying to build strength and/or power at any level of intensity its not the best way to do it, IMHO.

    And while I realize many track and field athletes do train the whole body each session, there cam still be a split along intensity lines (high force-explosive power or heavy day-light day).[/quote]

    I’ve actually thought (for a while) that track athletes could learn from split session workouts used by Bodybuilders, Powerlifters, and others. Especially in GPP and (if needed) Hypertrophy periods of training.Personally, I do full body 3x per week, with High, Low, and then moderate intensity – and this seems sufficient for slow(ish) strength gains. I suspect doing more intelligent splits would actually yield bigger strength gains – but I would gain weight like crazy.[/quote]In off season or early GPP, if strength or hypertrophy were important short term goals, I agree that split sessions would allow greater progress. SPP and Comp periods lifting for sprinters seems to be limited to a few exercises, so splitting along intensity lines, as you’re doing, probably works best.

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    Rich Tolman(mr-glove) on #93945

    [quote author="mr glove" date="1263946892"][quote author="ktolbert" date="1263935784"]It’s *very* common for athletes at that level to lift 3x/week.

    My comment is fairly general and one could make an argument based on certain variables but I just don’t think that 48 hours is enough time to recover before a similar session can be repeated.

    I put one too many lower body strength workouts in the same ballpark as all the garbage miles distance runners do. They’ll feel better without it but are too afraid to find that out.[/quote]

    “lift 3x/week” does not hold enough information to be able to relate it with “similar session”.[/quote]

    I’m going on the assumption that lift 3 x week means strength training with muscles from the hips on down.

    By similar session, I mean training for the lower body at a similar intensity as the previous lower body session. I’ve seen many programs where athletes are doing lower body work on M-W-F and the coaches think they’re okay because they’re varying the exercises.

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    Rich Tolman(mr-glove) on #93946

    [quote author="star61" date="1263952598"][quote author="Denis Eradiri (sizerp)" date="1263949556"]Why would athletes do bodyparts?

    By bodyparts, I mean splitting upper body from lower body. I’ve never been a fan of training the entire body in one session. I understand that in season or during maintainance phases it might be best, but if you’re trully trying to build strength and/or power at any level of intensity its not the best way to do it, IMHO.

    And while I realize many track and field athletes do train the whole body each session, there cam still be a split along intensity lines (high force-explosive power or heavy day-light day).[/quote]

    So if I do heavy squats followed by lighter snatches and end with push-presses, is that whole body?[/quote]

    That could be debated.

    I think this discussion could be looked at from both an exercise selection standpoint and an intensity standpoint.

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    star61 on #93947

    I’m going on the assumption that lift 3 x week means strength training with muscles from the hips on down.

    By similar session, I mean training for the lower body at a similar intensity as the previous lower body session. I’ve seen many programs where athletes are doing lower body work on M-W-F and the coaches think they’re okay because they’re varying the exercises.

    While not an expert an weight training track athletes, I would say the following. Studies that I have seen indicate that training two sessions per week is better than one, even if the second is at a lower intensity. However there seems to be very little benefit, in terms of strength gains, in adding a third day. With all the hoopla about strength competing for training time, CNS reserves, recovery, etc., it seems that the third day may be beyond the point of diminishing returns for a track athlete. If the third day were an upper body day, that would be different, but training the lower body three times, I’m not so sure.

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    Mike McKenna on #93992

    So if I do heavy squats followed by lighter snatches and end with push-presses, is that whole body?[/quote]

    Out of curiosity, why would you Squat heavy before you snatch, especially if, as you said above, you’re focusing on improving strength in the snatch, a more dynamic, High CNS demand lift?

    By the way, a good and easy way to improve what you can hold overhead in the snatch is to do a couple of overhead squats with your last rep in the snatch. So, 3 Snatches (full or power) then 2-3 overhead squats after the last rep.

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    sizerp on #93993

    [quote]So if I do heavy squats followed by lighter snatches and end with push-presses, is that whole body?

    Out of curiosity, why would you Squat heavy before you snatch, especially if, as you said above, you’re focusing on improving strength in the snatch, a more dynamic, High CNS demand lift?

    By the way, a good and easy way to improve what you can hold overhead in the snatch is to do a couple of overhead squats with your last rep in the snatch. So, 3 Snatches (full or power) then 2-3 overhead squats after the last rep.[/quote]

    Because I don’t focus on improving max strength in the snatch every lifting session. It would be a similar workout as squat followed by squat jumps for me.

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