Let’s Wake Up

Posted In: Blog Discussion

  • Vern Gambetta
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    Vern Gambetta on #16294

    Someone sent me a picture of one Americas promising young hammer throwers squatting an ungodly amount of weight. I was amazed that with everything we know today that coaches are still having their athletes do this. Why in an event that demands high speed coordination are we still training our athletes to be slow? This type of work is roadblock to success, not a building block.This is just one even

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    slowman on #91029

    I’m a little surprised by this post. Are you saying that all these throwers were doing was MaxS work? Were you able to evaluate the whole program to see what, if any other components are involved?

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #91031

    Lol i am as well…I’m sure this post will stir up some thoughts…(Star what do you think?)

    The main writers on this site seem to contradict each other quite a lot really…

    I know quite a few elite throwers (Mike, i’m sure knows more) and they all lift great weights and are very very strong and MxS work is a big part of their programs. For a thrower i think is much more important than for a jumper.

    So, yeah interesting that he would write this. Looking at the picture though, he obviously wasn’t full squating that weight…calf raise? lol..quarter squat? without know the full context of the training it’s hard to judge.

    Being LSU though, Mike can probably give us more insight…

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    cliffordwinburn on #91032

    To address this fairly, look at Vern’s background and his position. He clearly states on his website gambetta.com, under The Gambetta Method that he has helped those follow the functional path by:
    Being a Pioneer, Being a Leader, Being an Innovator, Producing Results, Being passionate, and continual learning. -Vern Gambetta, gambetta.com, The Gambetta Method, Nov. 6, 2009.

    Armed with this information, why is Vern posting that he is disappointed (and gave great reasons) in the field of athletic development when someone sent him a picture of an elite thrower lifting an insane amount of weight?

    He didn’t state the issue clearly, this is why so many may be shocked about his post.

    If Vern is a Pioneer, Innovator, Leads, and is all other things he claims (the statements are very ambiguous, so accuracy can’t be at best), then one could draw the conclusion that Vern is disappointed because of the principles of social influence.

    Think about it, someone sends a picture of a elite thrower lifting an insane amount of weight. Do you think coaches, trainers, etc. are going to say, “That’s what I need to get my athletes capable of and do it.”

    With the principles of social influence in practice (which many are oblivious, but claim autonomy and individualization anyway), this is a very likely outcome in the field of strength and conditioning.

    Why do you think he stated coach driven and athlete centered as solutions? Those are highly ambiguous statements to interpret, but given his background and my understanding of reading his literature… I find that his concrete solution is just that because this athlete can lift this insane amount of weight… doesn’t mean that all athletes wanting to reach this level should be able to do.

    Why do you think he titled the post “Let’s Wake Up”?

    He titled it this because he is trying to get coaches, trainers, to realize that just because this elite thrower can lift this amount of weight, doesn’t mean it is an end result to his ability of being an elite competitive thrower.

    He is simply trying to advocate thinking, by being athlete centered and coach driven.

    These conclusions need more clarification, and it would be a great discussion to have with coaches by how we all tend to move the field of athletic development further by first defining it.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #91035

    Sure, not ALL elite thrower NEED to be able to do lifts crazy weights to be great…

    But, he also made this statement…

    “Why in an event that demands high speed coordination are we still training our athletes to be slow?”

    Surely he knows the answer to why this training is important…right?

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    star61 on #91110

    While the same isn’t always true of sprinting, and possibly even jumping, the studies I’ve seen show a strong correlation between MxS and performance for throwers. Explosive lifting is important, as it is in most athletic training, but if MxS is not important for thowers, why are they all so big?

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #91119

    While the same isn’t always true of sprinting, and possibly even jumping, the studies I’ve seen show a strong correlation between MxS and performance for throwers. Explosive lifting is important, as it is in most athletic training, but if MxS is not important for thowers, why are they all so big?

    Star is correct here. There are at least 3 studies that I have seen that show a direct correlation between strength parameters and performance in the track and field throwing events. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule but Mike Stone’s research has indicated that you can’t be too strong for the throwing events.

    Regarding the back squat in question. I saw the picture 2 weeks ago and immediately thought it was staged for the photo shoot. I’ve met Walter only 2x and he’s very athletic looking…similar to Koji Murofushi. I do know his coach though. Coach Yush is the throws coach at LSU now and he has a great understanding of biomotor development. He’s coached jumps and multi-eventers with good success at other institutions. As I understand, the 855 squat was a higher box squat and the load may have been larger than usual for the photo shoot.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    bap0022587 on #91151

    Someone sent me a picture of one Americas promising young hammer throwers squatting an ungodly amount of weight. I was amazed that with everything we know today that coaches are still having their athletes do this. Why in an event that demands high speed coordination are we still training our athletes to be slow?

    I believe Mike’s post sheds more light on the subject, the fact that he was squatting off a higher box would explain the heavy load. But also the weight does not always have to move fast for it to train the fast twitch muscles. If an athlete is pressing, pulling or squatting the weight with maximal effort and TRYING to move the weight as fast as he can then he is still teaching his muscles to be explosive. Also speed can be taught by having a dynamic day to train for speed while the max effort day trains for maximal strength.

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