Leaning at the Tape

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      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #14858

        Normally I’m not a big fan of leaning at the tape. It’s not so much because I don’t think it can be effective. I know it can. In fact, the best outcome I ever had in a high school race was due to a dramatic (at least to me) lean at the finish. As a coach though, I’ve seen mistimed leans do more harm than good. Part of the problem is that when a lean is most needed (in a

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      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #72399

        Show some Colin Jackson video…and tell him leaning isn’t important! lol.

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        mortac8 on #72400

        How does Wariner lose in that photo? Shouldn’t the line in the front on his shoulder be the win? Explan it to me. What mark are they measuring from on Wariner?

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #72401

        Yeah no doubt. Jackson was one of the few who could lean effectively and on time almost every time. His twisting, throw one side forward while lunging lean was revolutionary and I’m sure it saved him several hundredths and won him some big races. A couple hurdlers tried to emulate his technique but it hasn’t really caught on…perhaps because the negative effects would be even more devestating if you mistimed this type of lean.

        ELITETRACK Founder

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #72402

        How does Wariner lose in that photo? Shouldn’t the line in the front on his shoulder be the win? Explan it to me. What mark are they measuring from on Wariner?

        That was my initial impression too. I’m assuming they used Wariner’s right clavicular notch against Merritt’s left clavicular notch.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Participant
        Daniel Andrews on #72403

        I still don’t see how it makes you faster and if it doesn’t make you faster then you would do better without it. Look at the female 100m final in the WC last year. Everyone who leaned moved back at least one place.

        A lean requires a longer gct on which the body pivots moving the torso in angular manner and not in a linear manner. A dive is a different story.

        Leaning is stupid, period. I don’t care what Colin Jackson thinks. From the picture it looks like Wariner wins and not Merritt. They had to of had a reverse angle shot.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #72405

        I don’t think it makes the SYSTEM faster but it can position the point of demarkation (the trunk / clavicle) further ahead for AN INSTANT. This is why it’s not just about technique but about timing. As I said I largely agree. It’s nearly impossible to get both right.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Participant
        Dave Hegland on #72422

        I believe it’s easiest and most effective for 100m/110m hurdlers to lean due to the fixed number of strides between the last hurdle and the line. E.g. a male hurdler might observe that he takes 6 strides from H10 to the finish, and knows to dip onto his right leg. A little repetition could yield a few hundredths.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #72423

        I believe it’s easiest and most effective for 100m/110m hurdlers to lean due to the fixed number of strides between the last hurdle and the line. E.g. a male hurdler might observe that he takes 6 strides from H10 to the finish, and knows to dip onto his right leg. A little repetition could yield a few hundredths.

        Good point. I believe Tramell used to use this technique also.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Participant
        Dave Hegland on #72424

        Tony Wells is one coach I know of that has his athletes practice this. He claims it can steal races. Being a big fan of Tony Wells, I am a big fan of this as well 🙂

        I agree with Mike, though. I see more people dip early and kill momentum, especially when they’re tired. As if leaning will make the race finally be over.

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        Participant
        Daniel Andrews on #72426

        It can steal hand timed races with bad timers. I had to correct many an error by hand timers, who incorrectedly timed runners based on leans in close races.

        The only way this can be done with any efficiency is when the body is in flight. Which Merritt did and this makes it a dive.

        I have to imagine they had at least 3 cameras on the line at this race, most likely 4. I would like the 2 or 3 other pictures. It looks to me like Wariner beat Merritt or they tied.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #72429

        It can steal hand timed races with bad timers. I had to correct many an error by hand timers, who incorrectedly timed runners based on leans in close races.

        Definitely more effective when hand timing is used.

        The only way this can be done with any efficiency is when the body is in flight. Which Merritt did and this makes it a dive.

        I don’t think this has to be the case. You could plant the foot out in front and cause acceleration of the trunk forward and downward which could conceivably put them at the finish line sooner.

        I have to imagine they had at least 3 cameras on the line at this race, most likely 4. I would like the 2 or 3 other pictures. It looks to me like Wariner beat Merritt or they tied.

        I’m pretty sure the picture displayed was the one used for the race timing. The vertical lines are in there because a timer (person) put them in there.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        Participant
        Daniel Andrews on #72430

        yeah, but FAT systems for IAAF meets need at least 3 cameras do they not? Meaning they have more than angle.

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #72431

        Yeah but this was the one given as the official race finish photo.

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        Patrick Pyle on #72432

        [quote author="duck" date="1221625273"]I believe it’s easiest and most effective for 100m/110m hurdlers to lean due to the fixed number of strides between the last hurdle and the line. E.g. a male hurdler might observe that he takes 6 strides from H10 to the finish, and knows to dip onto his right leg. A little repetition could yield a few hundredths.

        Good point. I believe Tramell used to use this technique also.[/quote]

        Reggie Torian also

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        Participant
        Patrick Pyle on #72433

        here is a pic of Rodney Milburn head on….

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #72435

        [quote author="Mike Young" date="1221632963"][quote author="duck" date="1221625273"]I believe it’s easiest and most effective for 100m/110m hurdlers to lean due to the fixed number of strides between the last hurdle and the line. E.g. a male hurdler might observe that he takes 6 strides from H10 to the finish, and knows to dip onto his right leg. A little repetition could yield a few hundredths.

        Good point. I believe Tramell used to use this technique also.[/quote]

        Reggie Torian also[/quote]Oh yeah. Couldn’t remember the name. He was the other guy who really seemed to use it successfully.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        RussZHC on #72436

        I am confused as I thought I understood the rules regarding photos of the finish.
        To me the picture indicates Wariner “won” but if Merritt won officially and this picture is supporting that, I now question many of the photos from the Jr Worlds where there were a number of both heats and finals that very similar photos (twisting of the shoulders putting the leading shoulder ahead of someone’s torso)that seems to “go” the opposite way.
        I have never taken time to coach a lean as IMO the risk/reward is too great, especially as many age groupers will actually slow attempting to get a good lean with a lesser risk of falling.

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        aivala on #72441

        From that wariner pic it seems to me that having big traps also helps at the foto finish :p .

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        azz88 on #72448

        Great race, unlucky for wariner. I agree that my first thought on seeing the photo was wariner had won but thats why im not the expert lol

        Wariner- 44.41: i still can’t help thinking that the move from Hart was a big mistake, he was basicly untouchable for so long with Hart, consistantly under 44s and now things have changed so much for him. The only thing i notice different in his races is his last 100m- he looks nowhere near ‘in control’ now compared to when he was with Hart. I know the training he does now is very much like the stuff he done with Hart but do you think the drop in his last 100m split has something to do with just Hart being there to look over him while be trains or has his race splits lately(since he left hart) been alot faster through the first 200-300m?

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        Irish100m on #93010

        Just stumbled across this. I barely ever lean – onyl if im in a fight for first place would i lean. Any other circumstance and i wouldnt bother. I think i may need to though

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