Jackass Judgement

Posted In: Blog Discussion

      • Carl Valle
        Participant
        Carl Valle on #16273

        Now that the sports training world is having people do hip thrusts like a male review show from Vegas, my question is what do people expect to get from doing glute bridges? A fine low level exercise used when needed but the reason people have such lame glutes is the fact they have program design issues. Most of the problems I see are related to foot mechanics as a lot of research on back pain is s

        Continue reading…

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Linas82 on #90705

        Exercise like hip thrust looks a bit funny, but it seems that it activates glute muscles a lot. For athletes who have weaker glute muscles, maybe it’s a faster way to make these muscles stronger. No doubt that glute muscles get certine degree of activation through various other general and specific exercises, but who knows maybe it’s a faster way to strenghten these muscles. Same question would be what people expect from doing leg curls, glute ham raises, back extentions, good mornings, calf raises? Are these necessary and hip thrust is worthless?Why?

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Matt Norquist on #90709

        My concern with some of these glute exercises is that the lack of load won’t provide the same hormonal effect as OLs and Squats.

        My thought is to begin introducing these and some other exercises for posture – into my warm-up and warm-down routine.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        davan on #90710

        I wonder if people have ever considered that there is really no eccentric loading on most of these movements. There are always going to be issues with how “activation” is defined as well since an EMG has a strong bias towards concentric contractions and the like.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        star61 on #90711

        Davan, I’m not a biomechanics type, so I ask this question sincerely…since during a sprint the glute is already in a concentric contraction (swing phase) prior to touchdown, is eccentric loading critical as far as glute activation goes?

        As a general comment about this exercise, it is a general strength exercise and can be performed loaded. As a bodyweight exercise, maybe it can be included as a warmup, but with additional load, I’m interested in the potential to isolate the glutes, at least relative to a squat, step up or lunge.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        davan on #90708

        It’s okay,

        The issue with not having eccentric loading is actually more related to the hypertrophy people are trying to get more than anything else (one of the biggest factors affecting hypertrophy is the stretch of a given motion, which is why programs like DC can actually find people gaining muscle from doing weighted “stretches” that are actually increasing the total volume of their program quite dramatically by putting so much stress @ the stretch position). I’m not against anything like promoted in the article, just point out some issues that are quite significant and not addressed.

        When doing an EMG, there will be significantly lower registered “activation” of the motor units during an eccentric (or anything in the stretch position to describe more generally). This is important to note because in many of the exercises purported to have “less” activation, the most difficult (mechanically least advantageous) position is in the stretch (ie bottom of a squat, bottom of a lunge, bottom of a GM, etc.) while a hip thrust, glute bridge, etc. is the exact opposite. Part of this is how EMG measures activation–Contreras is almost definitely doing surface EMG. It is measuring electrical activity in a given area and obviously, when in a maximum contraction, there is going to be more activity in a given area versus at the bottom of a stretch. I am simplifying this quite a bit and there are many other concerns, but for the sake of discussion, this should help clue into some of the issues with these purported “studies.” As an example, I could do RDLs from a platform with a pause at the bottom, generating large stretches on the hamstring. From most people’s experience, they also do a tremendous job at developing hamstring strength and hypertrophy, however, if you were to put an EMG on these, they would not come close to the “activation” of many other exercises with more limited range of motion (and particularly those that focus on knee flexion).

        I’m not against any of the exercises necessarily, but just cautioning against changing an entire program design based on one article that poorly describes the issues involved in measuring muscle activation. People have gotten massive glutes off of just doing the big lifts and frankly, I don’t see Contreras pumping out anything unusual in terms of results. That again isn’t to say anything he is doing is bad or wrong (could likely be quite good), just be careful of purported new revelations that haven’t made much impact.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Thomas White on #90714

        I don’t have any significant experience with the movements but I would be careful with excessive loading. If the glutes are already a problem, this could make it worse by recruiting the erectors and hamstrings excessively.

        What I have found to work extremely well for people trying to build up their glutes is using 1 1/2 style reps on the big lifts. Pause squats seem to work as well.

        For those of you without spinal issues or SI disturbances, I would be hammering the RDL’s and pulls from the floor. Excellent for glute strength and size.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Rune Brix on #90716

        Great comment davan.

        I still think it will make a big difference in improving power in hip-hyperekstension. Why? Well we never train the move in the weight room and it is relevant to have concentric power in.

        But of cause it those very little in improving gluteal hypotrofie, vertikal jump power and relatede stuff such as power cleans.

        Of cause we should stick to the core lifts, deep squats for hypotrofie and the likes.

        For me the question is not if the exercises are relevant, but rather when, how, and last på not least how heavy? Is the exercises safe?

      • Avatar
        Participant
        davan on #90718

        I’m curious how people’s piriformii (is that the plural) are holding up after heavy loading with these movements. I haven’t met many athletes that aren’t tight in this area and I can see heavy loading of these movements causing some problems without regular therapy.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        mortac8 on #90719

        Glute guy stuff is assistance exercise…not replacing any primary lifts. Nice stuff for guys without a master coach or Z-Health expert chained in their basement.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Matt Norquist on #90726

        It’s okay,

        The issue with not having eccentric loading is actually more related to the hypertrophy people are trying to get more than anything else (one of the biggest factors affecting hypertrophy is the stretch of a given motion, which is why programs like DC can actually find people gaining muscle from doing weighted “stretches” that are actually increasing the total volume of their program quite dramatically by putting so much stress @ the stretch position). I’m not against anything like promoted in the article, just point out some issues that are quite significant and not addressed.

        When doing an EMG, there will be significantly lower registered “activation” of the motor units during an eccentric (or anything in the stretch position to describe more generally). This is important to note because in many of the exercises purported to have “less” activation, the most difficult (mechanically least advantageous) position is in the stretch (ie bottom of a squat, bottom of a lunge, bottom of a GM, etc.) while a hip thrust, glute bridge, etc. is the exact opposite. Part of this is how EMG measures activation–Contreras is almost definitely doing surface EMG. It is measuring electrical activity in a given area and obviously, when in a maximum contraction, there is going to be more activity in a given area versus at the bottom of a stretch. I am simplifying this quite a bit and there are many other concerns, but for the sake of discussion, this should help clue into some of the issues with these purported “studies.” As an example, I could do RDLs from a platform with a pause at the bottom, generating large stretches on the hamstring. From most people’s experience, they also do a tremendous job at developing hamstring strength and hypertrophy, however, if you were to put an EMG on these, they would not come close to the “activation” of many other exercises with more limited range of motion (and particularly those that focus on knee flexion).

        I’m not against any of the exercises necessarily, but just cautioning against changing an entire program design based on one article that poorly describes the issues involved in measuring muscle activation. People have gotten massive glutes off of just doing the big lifts and frankly, I don’t see Contreras pumping out anything unusual in terms of results. That again isn’t to say anything he is doing is bad or wrong (could likely be quite good), just be careful of purported new revelations that haven’t made much impact.

        Great Post and great points. I think Contreras has some good ideas worth incorporating, but to Star’s points – I’m all about introducing them (with BW) as warm-up and finishing exercises.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Chad Williams on #90736

        Some great points in this thread from Davan, Mort and Star. These movements are definitely not a replacement to the squat, oly’s or anything else that are currently in the program design. Most of these movements can and should be utilized as auxiliary exercises on low CNS days in GS circuits with just body weight or possibly some resistance. I have always liked Vern’s angle of training movements not particular muscles in the weightroom. The squats and oly’s train movements as part of the bigger picture.

        Glute Guy has done some homework, but like most seeking financial profit from training, he has an angle. Just click on his add and you will see a fabulous backside of a female in a thong.

      • Avatar
        Participant
        davan on #90782

        https://www.youtube.com/user/bretcontreras1#p/u

        This is what everyone on the internet is excited about? I don’t mean the hot figure chick, but the exercises? I mean, the chick in the videos is nice, but I don’t see any “glutes” on the people in these videos. You could go to any D3 track meet and see people who barely even lift with more developed glutes than this, let alone any sort of seriously high level of competition (ie D1, USATF/IAAF, etc.).

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Rune Brix on #90806

        I have been thinking about the subject for some days now. First of alle i was a bit to conlusive with my earlier remarks.

        This is not an argument for og againt hip hyperextensions exercises

        Bret just postede another link on t-nation.

        “Anteroposterior bent-leg exercises involve hip hyperextension with bent knees. They’re loaded from front-to-back and work the upper glutes in addition to the lower glutes. They’re the best total glute activators because the knees stay bent, which decreases hamstring involvement and forces the glutes to pick up the slack.

        They’re bent-leg contracted-position hip extension exercises which produce the highest levels of both mean and peak glute activity because the glutes are worked pretty hard at the bottom of the movement but especially hard at the top of the movement at the hyperextension range.

        Due to this phenomenon, muscular tension never subsides and blood is literally trapped and incapable of escaping. This explains why hip thrusts and pendulum quadruped hip extensions produce the greatest pump, burn, and cramping sensation out of any other hip extension exercises; the constant tension pools the blood which can be good for occlusion/hypoxia and fascial stretching, in addition to being good for both sarcomeric and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.”

        I have seen studies on this before, but comparing to deep squats the hyptrofie gains must be minimum? any comments?

        In brets artikel he referes to hip hyperekstension being a part of maxV sprinting. In fact sprinting from mid stance to toe off is, hip hyperekstension + internal rotation in maxV. This makes hip thrusts less specifik because they are performede with external rotation. One leggede hip thrusts (with internal rotation) would be more specifik.

        But:

        1. Is hip ekstension internal rotation, power, a limiting faktorer for top speed sprinting?

        2. Which part of the force velocity kurve is relevant to train to improve this movement?

        3. Which part of the force velocity kurve is this movement safe to train with?

        What do you think???

        (sorry for spelling and gramma, English is not my first language).

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Matt Norquist on #90808

        I just like watching the videos of girls doing Hip Extensions/thrusts. I am now requiring it of my wife on a regular basis. I’ve told her if she doesn’t do it, I’ll have to watch it on you-tube. (She’s 8 months pregnant by the way, so I think she is getting a good amount of resistance in the exercise) 🙂

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #90905

        ” date=”1256616678″]Glute guy stuff is assistance exercise…not replacing any primary lifts. Nice stuff for guys without a master coach or Z-Health expert chained in their basement.

        My sentiments exactly. I’ve always thought 2-3 days of posterior chain / glute stuff is useful in an auxillary role but if you’re not hitting it with ‘big picture’ exercises like pulls from the floor, deep squats, low starting positions, etc then it won’t matter how much you can hip thrust or how big your glutes are.

        On a related note, I have about 10 or so ‘red alarms’ for guruism and one of them is a proclaimed ‘secret’ that is being sold. The glute article in question has some useful information but there’s no ‘magic pill’ or secret to sprinting performance.

        ELITETRACK Founder

      • Avatar
        Participant
        Eric Broadbent on #90913

        I just like watching the videos of girls doing Hip Extensions/thrusts. I am now requiring it of my wife on a regular basis. I’ve told her if she doesn’t do it, I’ll have to watch it on you-tube. (She’s 8 months pregnant by the way, so I think she is getting a good amount of resistance in the exercise) 🙂

        That’s too funny

Viewing 16 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.