Increased Hip Height=Greater Airtime=FASTER TIMES?

Posted In: The Classics

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    Kebba Tolbert on #20286

    [i]Originally posted by mike[/i]
    Also KT, you mentioned creating a "fake" feel. How do you fake the feeling of doing the technical aspects correctly without the force needed to do it correctly…..assisted runs maybe?

    hmm…. i know Charlie says assisted runs pulls the CM forward into the ground thereby reducing hip height… but i even meant drills or even "fast straight leg bounding" (maybe even assisted) where you're feeling the hip position and a reduced backside push… so the emphasis would be on a "hot track" or reduced horizontal push. these can also be fdone with a small wt vest (3-10% bw) as a means of special strength training.

    as i've alluded to before, i like to contrast this type of work with real sprinting, e.g., 10-20m flying sprints.

    So I might do:
    2-3 x 15m straight leg bound (10-25m run in)

    2 x 15m flying sprint (w/20-40m run in)
    during the bounds you can cue as above and then tell the athlete that you want them to have the same feel in sprinting.

    my 02.

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    pete on #20287

    How do you do the straight legged bounds? Do you pull the knees up after contact?

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    sprrinter984 on #20288

    Are there any sprinting cues to improve this action when sprinting. I've already heard of the toe up-heel up-knee up cue, but this action just seems to keep the athlete lower to the ground (low hip height)

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #20289

    Whether an assisted run pulls a person down to the ground is mostly a result of where the line of pull is in relation to the person's center of mass. If it is above the COM (as in a pulley from a slightly elevated position) then this might create the "fake" feeling we're discussing. If the pull is in line with the sprinter's COM (as is ussually the case) or even worse, below it, then the sprinter will be pulled into the ground as Charlie has said.

    As for cues, I like "run tall," "push yourself up," "feel bouncy" and "high hips" These are simple cues that have worked well for me.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #20290

    Several people have asked for the picture that was originally attached to one of my earlier messages in this thread but was deleted when I upgraded the messageboard software. I thought the picture was gone forever but I found the picture on an old computer this weekend so here it is…..

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Derrick Brito on #20291

    thats not the original picture! mike dont act like youre good at drawing! 😀

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    QUIKAZHELL on #20292

    Can you briefly explain the picture and say what bfd stands for?
    thanks.

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #20293

    The picture (which is the original pic) was intended to show the effect of toe off position on the force application vector. In a nutshell, higher hip height is often indicative of a toe off position which is closer to BDC (bottom dead center….as in cycle crank position) which is associated with more vertical force application and higher top end running speeds.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    senri on #20294

    won’t this minimize turnover by having high hips or try to get the bouncy feeling half way through the 100m?

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #20295

    [i]Originally posted by senri[/i]
    won’t this minimize turnover by having high hips or try to get the bouncy feeling half way through the 100m?

    I’ve never noticed this to be the case. And besides, turnover is only one component of speed. Any cost to turnover that high hips might cause (I’ve never noticed any) would more than be made up by increased stride lengths via better ground contact position and more efficient force application.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    senri on #20296

    i ask cause to get the bouncy feeling i try to bound and i go fast (my coach says) but i feel slow, with running turnover it gives me that psychological aspect. But technique wise thats my biggest problem which is getting the best out of my stride, and putting less emphasis on turnover, i can’t yet atleast get the bouncy feeling and go fast fast. I feel like i’m grazing the ground and am goin nowhere. When i do put emphasis i extend to the max when im around the 40-50m mark i feel slow though. Basically i’m trying to figure out how to associate the turnover with the stride, but my stride is not coming through….Ah yes patience with everything :bounce:

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #20297

    You are what I call a “turnover addict.” You mistakenly associate limb speed (i.e. turnover) with moving fast without realizing that their are other factors which come into play. The slow feeling you get when you run “bouncy” is pretty normal for turnover addicts who start to run correctly. The reason you get this sensation is because your flight times and distances are longer as a consequence of increased vertical force application at ground contact. Ignore your gut instinct and trust that you are running faster. When the correct running mechanics become natural you should really see some improvements.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Josh Hurlebaus on #71841

    I reread this thread before I did my workout today, and it kept churning in there until this was the final result.

    I was thinking about how inefficient training top speed was for the reasons KT mentioned: the need for long recoveries. Also I read the thread on the best distance for top speed development and the majority of the acceleration seems like wasted energy to me and creates the need for those long recoveries.

    Now KT mentioned using straight leg bounding as one method of special strength training for MaxV. Would the example Mike gave in a different thread of using stadium stairs (for height to mimic top speed mech) be another way? My question is where is the line drawn for how much is used in a session and in how many sessions in the micro.

    So my thoughts are here right now. Say I have 8 weeks of MaxV broken into two 4 week micros, with three weeks of full vol followed by a one week unload period. Speed is done 3 days a week. Would I be best setting it up like this? For the first micro I would have roughly half of the vol come from the track (ie flying 20’s) and half come from the drills like KT mentioned. For the second micro I would do roughly 75% on the track and 25% drills, so that I can adapt fully to running at MaxV but still I am keeping the drills in there to maintain the gains from them from the previous micro?

    Does that sound like it would work, or am I better off sticking with flying 20’s?

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #71872

    Now KT mentioned using straight leg bounding as one method of special strength training for MaxV. Would the example Mike gave in a different thread of using stadium stairs (for height to mimic top speed mech) be another way? My question is where is the line drawn for how much is used in a session and in how many sessions in the micro.

    I personally don’t like to use simulated MaxV work more than 1x / week for a couple weeks.

    So my thoughts are here right now. Say I have 8 weeks of MaxV broken into two 4 week micros, with three weeks of full vol followed by a one week unload period. Speed is done 3 days a week. Would I be best setting it up like this? For the first micro I would have roughly half of the vol come from the track (ie flying 20’s) and half come from the drills like KT mentioned. For the second micro I would do roughly 75% on the track and 25% drills, so that I can adapt fully to running at MaxV but still I am keeping the drills in there to maintain the gains from them from the previous micro?

    Does that sound like it would work, or am I better off sticking with flying 20’s?

    I think that could work. I don’t think it would be quite as beneficial as the flying 20s though. What event are you doing this for?

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    mortac8 on #71874

    My opinion is that top speed improvement is one of those things you kinda have to just let happen. It seems to be more of a product of stability/strength/posture mixed with freedom of movement. I don’t know how much you can force it along with plain flying runs and drills (not a big fan of drills other than for warmup).

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