Hypothetical Thought

Posted In: The Classics

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    Jay Turner on #28158

    Comments from all are welcome.

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    Derrick Brito on #28159

    i dont think i understand your question. you wouldnt be taking out speed work or endurance or adding either. maybe youd have 2 days of endurance and 1 of speed, if your focus was on endurance.

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    Jay Turner on #28160

    [i]Originally posted by cockysprinter[/i]
    i dont think i understand your question. you wouldnt be taking out speed work or endurance or adding either. maybe youd have 2 days of endurance and 1 of speed, if your focus was on endurance.

    No no no. . . .

    When I said “the above setup”, I meant the GPP setup that drivephase has on this thread. Go take a look (if you haven’t already) and then my question will make more sense.

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    400stud on #28161

    Gov – You wouldn’t. Danny’s program is specifically formatted the way it is for a certain reason – it gets the desired results. The sprinters at LX focus on strength more than pure speed as most are naturally pretty fast to begin with. So, they focus on specific endurance as it probably makes more sense. So what you can run a 21-sec 200m….does that mean you can run a 45-sec 400m? No, and I’ve seen it happen.

    When training sprinters, mostly young sprinters, stick with ends-to-middle….

    Acc. Dev. –> MaxV –> Short Speed
    SE2 –> SE1 –> SE

    Int. Tempo before SE2 if desired.

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    Daniel Andrews on #28162

    2 things:

    1. A 400 runner needs endurance to maximize his speed.

    2. A 400 runner needs speed to maximize his endurance.

    With adequate endurance any HS boy who runs 12.0 for 100m has the ability to run a 52 sec 400. 11.0 has the ability to run 48 sec. A 10.5 has the ability to run a 46. The best way to handle speed work is to maximize your endurance and strenght first. You may also find your form becomes better with endurance, and that you relax better coming out of the first turn till you hit the front straight. Most problems 400 runners have is they hit the wall at 250 meters or save too much and can only out kick the former in the front straight.

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    fraek on #28163

    With adequate endurance any HS boy who runs 12.0 for 100m has the ability to run a 52 sec 400. 11.0 has the ability to run 48 sec. A 10.5 has the ability to run a 46.

    to me these sound off, enless your talking about 800m runners running those times in the 100. To me this sounds better:

    100m 400m
    12.0 – 54
    11.0 – 50
    10.5 – 48

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    Daniel Andrews on #28164

    Those times would indicate one or more of the following:

    1. lack of adequate endurance/leg strength
    2. too fast of a float
    3. too slow of a start
    4. lack of mental toughness

    Also, take into account the key phrases in my post are ability to (read as potential) and adequate endurance. When you can race a 400 PR, win, and then take your victory lap do you have adequate endurance.

    To your point about 800 runners, an 800 runner is a 400 runner, there is no way you can be decent 800 guy without being a decent 400 runner. Contrary to popular myth 800 is not a distance event. A runner may dominate HS 2 mile races with a respectable 54 sec 400, but that same guy will suffer against 400/800 guys in the mile races.

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #28165

    [i]Originally posted by danimal9[/i]
    2 things:

    1. A 400 runner needs endurance to maximize his speed.

    2. A 400 runner needs speed to maximize his endurance.

    Very true but as I mentioned in my other post [/url] I think the endurance should be event specific endurance and not overly aerobic in nature.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Daniel Andrews on #28166

    If you do not have the ability to start with a fast 100, float for 200, and hammer home the last 100 then you are not fit enough to race to your potential. If you cannot accelerate out the 2nd turn into the front stretch you lack the endurance to run a great 400.

    You actually need both speed-endurance (muscular strength) and overall endurance (aerobic mainly the enzymatic benefits)

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #28167

    [i]Originally posted by danimal9[/i]If you cannot accelerate out the 2nd turn into the front stretch you lack the endurance to run a great 400.

    I can’t recall any elite level 400m where the athlete was able to accelerate out of the 2nd turn into the straightaway. In fact, it is quite rare to ever even see a final 100m split within 0.4s of any of the other 100m splits. 400m runners maintain (at least they try) not accelerate down the straightaway. Sometimes, the effort level goes up (kids push harder) but if they are accelerating they didn’t run the race correctly in my opinion.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Daniel Andrews on #28168

    It’s a FEELING, not actually something you do. Listening to Wariner’s post oly-race comments he said he could have ran faster because his float was good and he worked the turns real well and could feel himself accelerate when the other runs where struggling.

    When your body straightens up coming out the turn you tend to accelerate. Laws of physics take over, how much so and how far you can go with it depends on how much you relaxed in your float. I never said that you the final 100 faster than the rest, just that you are able to hammer it.

    I would have to agree if you ran your final 100 faster than the rest you ran the race wrong. I have stated that elsewhere as well. Although it is not uncommon for the 3rd and 4th 100’s to be similiar in a perfect race, just because you run slower in turns than in the straights.

    I think you and I may agree more than you think. Where we disagree it seems is about athletes not yet at that Elite level.

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #28169

    Ok then. It was just a semantics based misunderstanding. Generally when I think acceleration I think of speeding up. I can assure you they are not doing that in the 400m though. I guess technically they are accelerating all the way around the turn before the straightaway but this is only because their direction is changing (acceleration = a change in either magnitude or direction of speed).

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Jay Turner on #28170

    [i]Originally posted by danimal9[/i]
    If you do not have the ability to start with a fast 100, float for 200, and hammer home the last 100 then you are not fit enough to race to your potential.

    Is this the most effective way to run the 400m? I always thought the best way to run it was to accelerate the first ~6sec., then float for about 150-175m, accelerate the 2nd curve, then hammer home the straight. Another way I was taught was accelerate for ~6sec., float 250m, then hammer home the straight. Have I been misled? Thoughts?

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    Daniel Andrews on #28171

    you are right daGov, both ways are essentially the same. You start floating in your 100’s about 60 meters. Not mislead at all.

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