How can they recover?

Posted In: Clyde Hart

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        Participant
        taake on #17510

        https://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/2007/Sprint Training/Clyde_Hart3.pdf

        I have read clyde harts pdf document on 400m training and whats striking me is that there is almost no real recovery during a week of training.
        There is tempo running 5 days in a row, either medium or hard.
        I think even 800m runners would struggle with this approach.
        Also what is strange for me is the mixing of different speeds within each session. like sprint work 40ms after fast event run. wouldnt that be useless?
        Beacause u cant train speed when u are tired?
        And what is the reason for mixing different speeds in one session? Like medium tempo: 10x200m followed by fast 6x150m hill runs.

        This is f.ex fall training:

        m:
        2×600 s:60sek r:15min
        3×300 s:50 r:1
        3×300 s:40 r:5
        weights

        t:
        10×200 s:30 r:2
        6x150m hills s:fast r:jog back

        w:
        4×300 (event run) s: 40 r:5
        4x40m 20 sek rest
        weights

        t:
        600,400,200,600,400 s: 30sec pace r: 5 min
        6x100m s:medium r:1

        f:
        2 mile cross country timed run
        weights

        s:
        3 miles easy

        s:
        20min fartslek (haha why have u a scandinavian name for this?)

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        Participant
        Mccabe on #107563

        Have to remember they are elite athletes. 6x150m up hill “fast” might not mean 100% effort and on Friday, Saturday and Sunday it is just a way of getting mileage in. The aim of the programme at this stage is to get his athletes fit.

        *edit*

        Forgot to mention the 4×40 is probably technical work rather than speed development. A 400m sprinter needs to be able to hold good whilst extremely fatigued.

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        Participant
        taake on #107564

        I just think its strange to run 40m after running 300s. I can understand 80-100ms, but not 40.
        Even if they are elite they dont have that good endurance. Since they are more 200-400 runners. And I think they have a harder time handling big training load than endurance runners.
        I just know that myself I will not have much quality of my sessions if I do more than 2 medium or hard session in a row.
        This program has the same workout structure even in pre season-season and late season with higher intensity and less volume. For me it just not seem logical. But maybe the elites have much better recovery than normal people? I dont know.

        And also it has no true speed work, only speed endurance. This is not according to the guidelines here 🙂 But the program has been effective for sanya richards and jeremy wariner.

        But I agree with him that speed endurance is very important. my pbs on 100/200 are only 12.2 and 24.2. Still I managed run 400m in 51.1. And I think the reason was very much speed endurance work. I had no true speed work.

        So If u are a 10.5 runner and train very good at speed endurance, then of course the time will be very fast.

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        Participant
        Mccabe on #107567

        You answered a lot of your own questions. For someone close to breaking 21 seconds a 30 second 200 is a jog, there is no way that is their programme all year around.

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        Participant
        taake on #107571

        If u look at the pdf u see that they still havee the same structure in season. But as I said with higher intensity and lower volume. But still quite impossible for normal athletes

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        Participant
        Mccabe on #107573

        On the PDF it says “No Organized Practice” so there is your rest.

        Even in the late season he is asking for 3×350 through 200 in 24 and most of the 200’s at 28/30 second pace. That is for a 46 runner. You might want to go over it again in a bit more detail.

        Going through 400 in 50 point and holding on for 50 and then doing 3×200 in 30 won’t bother most 46.0 guys.

        You scale the workouts down to your level, so a 51 runner would go through 400 in 55 for a 450.

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        Participant
        taake on #107587

        So basically the same volume and workouts just adjust the speed?
        And u think this can work with 400/800 runners also? (because of the big use of tempo)

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        Participant
        Mccabe on #107588

        Yes, scale the pace down to something you can do. I guess someone could run a decent 800 off the programme but there is a lack of any over distance or specific 800 work.

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        Participant
        taake on #107589

        yes u are right about that. some fast 600ms and some longer runs are needed for the 800m I believe.
        This program however seem to fit more to super fast athletes that lack the endurance, than slower runners with good endurance. (as many have stated here) But cant say for sure. have never tried the program. The miler types will probably think the volume and intensity of the tempos are too little and slow, while the pure 200m type will probably hate and suffer during the tempo workouts :)But probably achive the best results from this program

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        Participant
        Martijn de Lange on #107598

        On the PDF it says “No Organized Practice” so there is your rest.

        Even in the late season he is asking for 3×350 through 200 in 24 and most of the 200’s at 28/30 second pace. That is for a 46 runner. You might want to go over it again in a bit more detail.

        Going through 400 in 50 point and holding on for 50 and then doing 3×200 in 30 won’t bother most 46.0 guys.

        You scale the workouts down to your level, so a 51 runner would go through 400 in 55 for a 450.

        The 450m workout may seem relatively easy for a 46s runner, but remember that the guy competed 2 days before.
        The 350m workout is tougher, the speed may seem slow but the short 5 min recovery is what makes it hard.

        I have at least 4 different 400m programs from coach Hart. The one quoted here seems to be the latest one. Earlier versions, like the one in the USATF coaching manual from 2000 included faster 200s, predominantly in 26s with 200m walk rest instead of the 30/30. Still not very fast, but a significant change nonetheless.

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        oshikake@ymail.com on #107600

        I guess from years of training & the body being able to tolerate such workloads.

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