Emperor’s New Exercises: Naked in the Netherlands

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  • Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #16225

    Frans Bosch has introduced some exercises with some outlandish claims of transfer. Like I mentioned before, his work is wonderful in theory, but I simply don’t agree with his approach to coaching, especially in the weight room and in strength development. His exercises are gross mongrel of weights and movements that seem to only add more complexity to exercises that need less complexity. Single l

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    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #89852

    “Step-ups and single leg olympic lift combinations are not sending a clear message to the body and dilute qualities that they could be developing”.

    How do you know this? just wondering…

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #89869

    With any complex compound multi faceted exercise their is a compromise to the results when you are trying to do a lot. Sometimes a lot of things have a big bang for the bucks such as a olympic lifting exercise but when you go from single leg olympic lift to a step up you have to reduce the load. And if it the load doesn’t matter than the transfer is so great why do any weight at all?

    Marc is talking nonsense about training reflexes. Similar to teaching gravity. They happen. Coordination in the weightroom does exist but with light loads the value isn’t worth it because sprinting and jumping deal with great forces. So Nick the numbers don’t lie. What will a 30k single leg exercise do? It will not deal with high level forces, and if the motion is so great no load will create huge transfer in running mechanics/velocity.

    If I had an athlete do the exercise with just sprinting and my athlete did real olympic lifts and just sprinting who will win? Will Frans have guys looking like Carl Lewis in 1991 after running sloppy? Or will my athlete develop power that will get him a chance to win? The exercise alone can’t possibly be power and the skill transfer is not fast enough or specific enough for sprinting.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #89870

    Yeah i understand what your saying…

    I’ve just been reading a lot on Gary Bourne’s (Top Australian long jump coach) training methods lately and he seems to practice a lot of Frans principles with the “specific unilateral” exercises etc…he has produced/ developed pretty much all of the top Australian long jumpers for a while now…

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    burkhalter on #89871

    What does Charlie Francis say, strength training is a general stimulus…..

    Doing a one leg Olympic lift seems retarded to me.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #89872

    BUT

    Doing a single leg box drop landing stiff legged probably doesn’t seem retarded to you right?

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #89877

    No.

    General and Specific.

    Nautilus and a good strength program are not the same. Specific will only range to the area that doesn’t overlap exercises that are the actual events. When jumps and sprints are great, weights really cover some of the gaps holistically. When general exercises are competing for the real deal the exercises end up looking like circus stunts.

    Single leg plyos are great. Single leg lifting exercises could be structural balance, rehab, or even strength. They are not sprint replacements. They can do damage control (lifting) to a winter in Massachusetts but not a good sprinting program.

    Sometimes you want general as specific roses have specific thorns…..

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    burkhalter on #89880

    BUT

    Doing a single leg box drop landing stiff legged probably doesn’t seem retarded to you right?

    Seems like a good way to get hurt to me personally but I am sure there are benefits.
    I wouldn’t be able to do many single leg drops most likely but I’m old and not gifted.

    Seriously what is wrong with two feet.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #89881

    I just view the single clean (i’ve never done by the way) as something simular to a loaded plyometric movement with the quick ecc-con turn around after the catch…

    I’m failing to see what’s wrong with it, but i’m not refuting what Carl is saying.

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    burkhalter on #89883

    I see what you are saying regarding a loaded plyo. I would like to see vid of the movement. Is it just a split clean or is the lift single leg from the floor?

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #89885

    Gary Bourne said that he uses single leg hang cleans as a key weight room exerise during competition phases. Not sure about s/l clean from the floor.

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    burkhalter on #89886

    Could do it as an assistance exercise after real cleans, you know 3×3 at 50% or less of clean max qftr main clean work. Like a jump squat….

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #89887

    I personally like the idea of that yes…

    To me if nothing else it add variability to the program.

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    burkhalter on #89888

    Which is always fun. Same thing over and over is boring to me. Mike always includes good variability.

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    JeremyRichmond on #89889

    “Step-ups and single leg olympic lift combinations are not sending a clear message to the body and dilute qualities that they could be developing”.

    How do you know this? just wondering…

    Yeah i understand what your saying…

    I’ve just been reading a lot on Gary Bourne’s (Top Australian long jump coach) training methods lately and he seems to practice a lot of Frans principles with the “specific unilateral” exercises etc…he has produced/ developed pretty much all of the top Australian long jumpers for a while now…

    I’m a massive fan of single leg exercises. Of course they are not specific to the sprint block start but every other step in sprinting and jumping is single leg. To dispell the myth about the inadequacies of load in a single leg lift (yet again)…
    If an 80kg person does a single leg squat with 30kg = 110kg load on the leg = 220kg total load in a two legged squat minus bodyweight of 80kg = 140kg loaded squat for two legged condition…
    i.e. 30kg single leg squat = 140kg for normal two leg squat

    I do a 60kg single leg squat (albeit box squat into a position similar to a hang clean- second pull phase or limbo type of position) which is equal to a 200kg loaded squat for 12 reps.

    Frans is searching for the answers (without quite finding them in my opinion). For example the step up would be better with a hang clean as one steps up and is better executed on stairs with continuous alternate reps. Of course getting rid of the need to rely on arms as an aid for the hang clean is better. That is why I do my squats. I simply get into the position of the hang clean (hip extension part) without fatiguing the arms.
    As for reflexive training: if one leg moves forward whilst the other leg moves back then it is relevant to sprinting (although it must be quite velocity specific). Otherwise I don’t rate the “reflexive enhancing” part of the argument.

    Gary Bourne’s success might be attributable to the extent by which he incorporates single leg exercises into his training programs. Definitely runs a very successful program.

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