Developing Muscular Strength

Posted In: The Classics

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    mortac8 on #74165

    So in that vein, does anyone use the Ergo-Power as produced by Bosco Systems Devices?

    I have a Tendo Unit (same thing, more expensive) that is gathering dust in my closet. In the past, I used it alot but have not used it in the past few years at all. One local trainer asked to borrow it for training his NFL prospect guy (who went on to make it) and I gave it as glowing of a review as I would give of Nicole Richie’s nutrition plan. He did not end up using the device. The device is interesting and entertaining but I found it correlated to basically nothing on the track. Might be decent to use for speed box squats (60%) or picking apart olympic lifts(debatable) but I find that it’s far from a necessity (kinda like the omegawave).

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    davan on #74167

    I think I’ve come to realize that the useful training tools seem to be:

    -video camera
    -half cut tennis balls
    -straps (for lifting)
    -equiblock
    -mp3 player

    And, except for the mp3 player, you can get all of that for under $300.

    Is there much else besides this, outside of obvious equipment (spikes/blocks/etc.)?

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #74168

    [quote author="star61" date="1226037087"]I think injuries in the weight room are greatly exagerated for anyone other than beginners. It’s definitely safer than performing the sport being trained for, be it football, basketball or track. Studies have shown this to be true.

    I definitely agree. I’ve never had anyone hurt from doing OLs. I’ve had some lumbar issues with a couple different types of squats or pulls. On a related note to some of the earlier posts on the deadlift, I’d say that I’ve probably seen more injuries with that exercise than any other. It really lends itself to pushing beyond safe limit loads as it’s relatively easy to complete a lift with terrible technique.

    My biggest problem with the clean is that even if the form is technically sound, the weight being used is not nearly maximal.

    HUH? You lost me on this one. If you load the lift maximally, how could the load not be maximal?

    Assuming some general preperation before max effort weight training, such as solid core preparation, the deadlift takes much less time to teach than an olympic style clean. For a descent athlete, proper form can be taught in just a handful of training sessions. Max effort lifts, or at leat max triples, can begin fairly quickly. For an Olympic style clean using near maximal weight (pull from the floor doesn’t go much higher than the belly button), it takes much longer.

    I think this goes back to some earlier points- how long are you training for and what’s the issue with a slightly longer learning curve if the gains are considerably greater (or different). If it takes 3 weeks as opposed to 3 sessions isn’t that still worth it if you’ll be able to use the lift for years to come? Also, I read earlier that someone suggested that OLs provide the same benefit as deadlifts. This is simply not true. They are very much different. Even if you’re doing deadlifts for speed. So even if we err on the ultra-conservative side and say that OLs add 2-3% benefit over just doing deadlifts, isn’t that worth it when winners in our sport are decided by much less than that.

    Oly pulls have two short comings in my opinon. First, the vast majority of athletes, unless trained and supervised by a coach very well versed in olympic lifting, make the first pull much higher than elite olympic lifters. If you can pull the weight well past your belly button, it is obviously nowhere near a maximal effort lift.

    You’re stuck in power lift thinking with this one and using a one factor model for ‘maximal.’ You can’t compare loads used in one exercise and say that because you can’t lift the same load in another exercise (even if it looks similar) that it’s not of maximal load. Are front squats sub maximal because you can’t lift as much as in a back squat? Remember, maximal can be maximal speed, maximal load, maximal force output, maximal power output, etc. Note that OLs easily beat out heavy deadlifts on all of those except load (remember load does not equal force or power[/url]). This thinking is really WAAAAAAY off base in my opinion. In fact, the peak force, RFD, and power output of all the OLs is several magnitudes greater than what we see in the power lifts.

    Second, because of the beating that the shoulders and wrists take, most oly lifts I see are a performed at a lower percentage of 1RM, which is already lower because of the improper technique normally displayed. I have heard, but can’t confirm, that oly pulls are rare for NFL athletes because of the potential for shoulder/wrist problems.

    I actually think it’s true that many collegiate and NFL strength coaches don’t use OLs because of fears of shoulder injuries but they are either terrible coaches, conceding to the whims of uninformed sport coaches, or are uninformed themselves. There’s no link between OL and shoulder injuries. I have occasionally seen some wrist injuries but it was always in cases where the athlete wasn’t racking the bar correctly.[/quote]

    Can anyone share what we have for research regarding RFD….Comparing the power lifts to olympic lifts (charts, graphs, scores?)

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    mortac8 on #74169

    I think I’ve come to realize that the useful training tools seem to be:

    -video camera
    -half cut tennis balls
    -straps (for lifting)
    -equiblock
    -mp3 player

    And, except for the mp3 player, you can get all of that for under $300.

    Is there much else besides this, outside of obvious equipment (spikes/blocks/etc.)?

    If I was marooned on an island; I would say all you need is an mp3 player and a bottle of caffeine.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #75310

    Can anyone share what we have for research regarding RFD….Comparing the power lifts to olympic lifts (charts, graphs, scores?)

    All my research is packed up at the moment but there actually are several studies making comparisons. In the meantime, if anyone uncovers anything in this regards please add it to the wiki topic[/url]. I’d like for that to be an oasis for the frequently asked but always clouded in mystery hot topics on this and other sites like it.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Daniel Andrews on #75312

    [quote author="Carl Valle" date="1226260852"]
    Can anyone share what we have for research regarding RFD….Comparing the power lifts to olympic lifts (charts, graphs, scores?)

    All my research is packed up at the moment but there actually are several studies making comparisons. In the meantime, if anyone uncovers anything in this regards please add it to the wiki topic[/url]. I’d like for that to be an oasis for the frequently asked but always clouded in mystery hot topics on this and other sites like it.[/quote]

    I have tons of research papers floating around the house at the moment. Do want copied information from research that is referenced or do you want summarized research which is referenced?

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #75315

    Any of the above. In fact, you can actually upload pdf articles directly to the wiki entry. I really think it can be a great resource if the bigger minds on here jump in.

    ELITETRACK Founder

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #75341

    Post what you got Dbandre…..

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    Daniel Andrews on #75351

    Post what you got Dbandre…..

    Carl:

    Some of it electronic and most of it is paper.

    I gave Mike access to my electronic repository to take what he wants for elitetrack and I will be sending you a username and password as well.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #75605

    Thanks to Dan. The latest two additions to the article directory (now up to 225 articles!) were from Dan’s repository.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    JeremyRichmond on #75963

    Can anyone share what we have for research regarding RFD….Comparing the power lifts to olympic lifts (charts, graphs, scores?)

    Forwarded an article to Mike that may provide some insight. However, its more of a comparison to vertical jumps and squat jumps.

    In case you want to source it yourself:
    Kawamori N. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 2005, 19(3), 698-708
    information includes RFD, force production times, optimal power or velocity in the Hang Power Clean

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