Creatine and its effects

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    comando-joe on #97243

    .

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    star61 on #97245

    Again, please stop quoting protein as a supplement–it is really just a form of food. Not comparable to caffeine/creatine/beta alanine/etc.

    A supplement is anything you consume to “supplement” your diet. Can you not get any of the “supplements” you speak of from food? How about caffeine? How about Tyrosine? You are such a total hippocrite.

    The only substance I quoted that doesn’t have extensive literature on ergogenic benefits is piracetam. Might want to actually do your research before you speak out of your ass again.

    Again, getting personal and vulgar. You are susch a prick. I would love to spend 5 minutes with your scrawny, tiny ass, although I wouldn’t need that much time. But I digress. Please show me independent, unbiased studies on any of these substances, besides caffeiene, that has shown to consistently improve sprint performance more so than creatine. Not company financed studies, independent studies.

    No shit, however, that isn’t supplementation in the way being discussed. You are simply using food in powder form (almost no difference in form from something like powdered milk) to meet dietary needs. Using food to meet essential dietary requirements =/= supplementing for performance.

    The way its being discussed? So you are once again dictating the parameters of the discussion? I’m using the word supplement the way 99% of the athletic world uses it, and almost everyone includes protein as a supplement. Is waxy maize a supplment? Are carb drinks. Is caffiene? Besides being a hippocrite, you’re a self-important little prick. Please, please let me know if you’re ever in the Dallas area…I would love to get together to, uh, train.

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    trackspeedboy on #97248

    [quote author="Ash Fletcher" date="1271197860"]Speedfreak- I find if I take tyrosine with green tea or caffeine tab or any other sort of stim it seems to give me a sort of clearer focus. What dose do you take it at? Before races I have gone pretty hgih with it around 4 grams sometimes more

    Ive taken 2-3g, and felt no different. I think the main point, with all supplements, is that you probably wont feel a difference with the vast majority of them. The only supplement I have ever felt had an effect on me is caffeine – you can actually feel the difference within an hour. I take creatine, beta alanine, HMB, glutamine, protein, etc etc., and when I take them, I feel no different. But why would I? You might only get 0.1% improvement from each, if that, which is an amount that you couldnt measure on feel alone. You could measure it on results on the track, but then again, how variable are sprint performances anyway?

    To me, if a product is said to work in scientific literature, I will probably take it. Science rarely lies.[/quote]

    This is me 100%. I’ve taken all the common supplements, and a bunch of others, and the only thing that works for me is caffeine.
    Everything else, I dont feel or notice a difference one bit!
    Only one exception, and that’s beta alanine. But it doesnt give me any good effects, it’s just the tingling I feel! lol.

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    davan on #97249

    A supplement is anything you consume to “supplement” your diet. Can you not get any of the “supplements” you speak of from food? How about caffeine? How about Tyrosine? You are such a total hippocrite.

    At least know how to spell hypocrite and what one is before calling me one.

    Protein powder is food. Tyrosine and caffeine cannot be obtained in the amounts discussed outside of supplementation. Try again.

    Again, getting personal and vulgar. You are susch a prick. I would love to spend 5 minutes with your scrawny, tiny ass, although I wouldn’t need that much time. But I digress. Please show me independent, unbiased studies on any of these substances, besides caffeiene, that has shown to consistently improve sprint performance more so than creatine. Not company financed studies, independent studies.

    Do your own research, lazy ass. And I said overall performance. There isn’t a single study showing any substance to benefit well trained, moderate level (say, athletes that have trained for at least 4 years with PRs <11.0) 100m athletes. I acknowledged creatine works for some and in studies it works, but most people who sprint don't find it to really pan out as well as it does in studies and doesn't seem to be as beneficial as many other supplements. The ones I listed are ones I personally find useful for sprinting, have data to back them up (minus piracetam), and seems to hold true for people I know as well–you're making strawman arguments to advocate for creatine use when that wasn't my point.

    Re: supplements–Tyrosine is found to have synergistic stimulatory-related effects when combined with caffeine in the literature, yohimbine itself is a very strong stimulant and is an unusually strong substance in assisting with fat loss (studies using trained and elite athletes prove this over and over), and beta alanine has countless studies showing improvements in muscular endurance and RSA. There is plenty of data on these points. Whether or not any of it improves 100m performance or athletic performance specifically can be debated, but creatine is not the only substance with literature backing it and, clearly, many people have used it to find no benefit or improvement in their times and there are very clear scientific-based reasons for why this could occur.

    ]The way its being discussed? So you are once again dictating the parameters of the discussion? I'm using the word supplement the way 99% of the athletic world uses it, and almost everyone includes protein as a supplement. Is waxy maize a supplment? Are carb drinks. Is caffiene? Besides being a hippocrite, you're a self-important little prick. Please, please let me know if you're ever in the Dallas area…I would love to get together to, uh, train.

    lawl so protein powder is acting as an ergogenic aid… a performance enhancer… yep, believe that, Star.

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    davan on #97250

    Regarding meeting me in Dallas:

    Gladly, under the condition that it is @ Nick & Sam’s or Pappas.

    Carl Valle
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    Carl Valle on #97257

    Creatine works but not “right before races”. Those taking it before a race will be sad because it’s not a performance enhancing supplement but more of a GPP support product. You can use it post competition and in flight and I have seen no weight (water) issues with low dose protocols with micronized products for many but not everyone will respond well. If it helps do 2 more runs per week over 16 weeks that could be the difference between learning a quality in sprinting and not sprinting. Not taking creatine in the fall of a classic program seems to be a waste as the research shows to work in circumstances of repeat bouts of work.

    Stimulants before races (legal) are the best options for those looking for not only ergogenic assistance but I would argue they act as safety measures.

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    star61 on #97259

    Davan,

    As usual you can’t post a study to support your BS opinions. As usual you make sarcastic remarks to hide your stuborn ignorance. Post a study and save the BS.

    As far as protein, the only thing I said was that supplementing with protein has shown to improve athletic performance. It does. There are dozens of studies to prove it. Protein and creatinge are two supplements that enjoy almost universal agreement in terms of scientific opinion. But of course all nutrionists, sports scientists and the majority of all athletes should all rethink that because Davan doesn’t like to call protein a supplement and creatine didn’t make him stronger or faster. You are still small and weak.

    You are a joke. It will always be this way. Deal with it.

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    star61 on #97260

    Regarding meeting me in Dallas:

    Gladly, under the condition that it is @ Nick & Sam’s or Pappas.

    You wouldn’t be able to enjoy the steak, unfortunately. Perhaps you should go there first, kinda like a last meal sort-of=thing, and we can meet after.

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    davan on #97262

    Star:

    Post a study showing that steroids make people faster or jump further.

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    utfootball4 on #97266

    Creatine works but not “right before races”. Those taking it before a race will be sad because it’s not a performance enhancing supplement but more of a GPP support product. You can use it post competition and in flight and I have seen no weight (water) issues with low dose protocols with micronized products for many but not everyone will respond well. If it helps do 2 more runs per week over 16 weeks that could be the difference between learning a quality in sprinting and not sprinting. Not taking creatine in the fall of a classic program seems to be a waste as the research shows to work in circumstances of repeat bouts of work.

    Stimulants before races (legal) are the best options for those looking for not only ergogenic assistance but I would argue they act as safety measures.

    For a non-tested athlete, does this remove a product like “jack3d” before a speed/power event – for example before a combine type workout? Jack3d contains about 4.5grams of creatine per 3 scoops.

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    star61 on #97268

    Star:

    Post a study showing that steroids make people faster or jump further.

    You’ve got to be kidding, right? And again with the strawman crap. You said there were studies…post one. I posted two that took me 3 minutes to find. Post one that supports your opinions.

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    Linas82 on #97269

    I tried beta alanine, but can’t say something positive. I think taking small amounts of creatine during GPP is worth trying like Carl suggests. I see many are focusing on protein intake, especially from animal food. Now my diet is almost 100% plant based and mainly raw, of course I don’t use any soy products. I feel great, no need for extra protein, because I eat planty of this food. All essential amino acids I get from this food, for example avocado has all 8 essential amino acids. Animal based diet is more acidic, while plant based alkalizing. Better for digestion and for recovery. By the way Carl Lewis became a vegan during the last years of his sports career.

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    sizerp on #97271

    I’m with davan on this one. For me creatine causes water retention and thus muscle tightness very easily. I am sure there is an optimal amount of creatine that, when it enters the muscle cells, would increase their levels of phosphocreatine significantly enough. However, since the rate of transportation of creatine through the cell membrane depends on insulin levels, insulin sensitivity and cell permeability at that specific point in time, it’s kind of impossible for me to know how many grams to ingest in order to get that optimal effect. Since most people that do weight training are not concerned with muscle tightness (I think they seek it actually), they just down a big enough dose (10-20g) and whatever gets in, gets in.

    With that being said, creatine has a very useful, yet limited, application for athletes – muscle mass preservation during periods of inactivity:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19130643

    L-Tyrosine is good for training after less sleep than usual:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12887140

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    Snoof on #97275

    The one and only difference that i’ve noticed with creatine is my increased muscle tightness!

    On the other hand I get much better and faster recovery with glutamine (and bcaa).
    Haven’t tried BA yet…

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    davan on #97276

    [quote author="davan" date="1271225301"]Star:

    Post a study showing that steroids make people faster or jump further.

    You’ve got to be kidding, right? And again with the strawman crap. You said there were studies…post one. I posted two that took me 3 minutes to find. Post one that supports your opinions.[/quote]

    Beta-alanine:
    Derave W, Ozdemir MS, Harris R, Pottier A, Reyngoudt H, Koppo K, Wise JA, Achten E. (August 9 2007). “Beta-alanine supplementation augments muscle carnosine content and attenuates fatigue during repeated isokinetic contraction bouts in trained sprinters”. J Appl Physiol 103: 1736

    Yohimbine:
    Ostojic SM. Yohimbine: the effects on body composition and exercise
    performance in soccer players. Res Sports Med. 2006 Oct-Dec;14(4):289-99.

    Tyrosine:
    Magill RA, Waters WF, Bray GA, Volaufova J, Smith SR, Lieberman HR, McNevin N,
    Ryan DH. Effects of tyrosine, phentermine, caffeine D-amphetamine, and placebo on
    cognitive and motor performance deficits during sleep deprivation. Nutr Neurosci.
    2003 Aug;6(4):237-46.

    Belza A, Toubro S, Astrup A. The effect of caffeine, green tea and tyrosine on
    thermogenesis and energy intake. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;63(1):57-64. Epub 2007
    Sep 19. PubMed PMID: 17882140.

    Now post those studies.

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