But it’s just one day…

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      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #17446

        What’s one day of missed practice? Many think it’s no big deal but let’s look at it from a purely quantitative standpoint…one day of missed training in a 6 session training week is about a 17% reduction in total volume and frequency for the week. SEVEN. TEEN. PER. CENT. In a training week that has only 5 training sessions, one missed day of practice is a 20% reduction in frequency and likely

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        ELITETRACK Founder

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        the_chosen_one on #106391

        Conversely,

        What I see is too many coaches trying to get 1 more session in when clearly the athlete is in a state that will have diminishing returns. 17% can cause 50% reduction due to injury etc. Certainly this is a “case by case” situation but it certainly is a paradigm shift for a lot of coaches who are unwilling to go against the planned program that was written out on paper days, months in advance without knowing all the full variables.

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #106392

        Many times coaches have athletes doing sessions that they shouldn’t be doing because their bodies aren’t recovered enough for it. But they have them doing becuase they don’t know how to adapt training around how the athlete feels.

        Changing a high intensity session to recovery day for a beat up athlete or reducing volume considerably for this day is far better than having them perform it as written.

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        ex400 on #106393

        At the high school level, there is a wide variety of reasons an athlete will miss a practice. The coaching task is to determine how much, if at all, to adapt the planned succeeding sessions.

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        Ward on #106414

        I use the same thought in the classroom when I hear, “But I only miss one day a week.” Hmmm, so we have an 18 week semester and they missed 18 days…that over 3 weeks of the semester missing – about 17% of the semester.

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        bap0022587 on #106421

        I think what Mike is saying applies mainly when there is a sound training plan in place and the coach understands the work capacity of the athlete. For instance instead of missing a session entirely, either volume or intensity could be reduced to minimize the percentage of training lost. This will, especially in the weight room, minimize soreness and other negative effects from not performing a movement for an extended period of time. That’s just how I understood the post though.

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        Jay Turner on #106431

        Many times coaches have athletes doing sessions that they shouldn’t be doing because their bodies aren’t recovered enough for it. But they have them doing becuase they don’t know how to adapt training around how the athlete feels.

        Changing a high intensity session to recovery day for a beat up athlete or reducing volume considerably for this day is far better than having them perform it as written.

        I agree completely. I have a former athlete that now competes collegiately for a lower level division 3 program. She writes me almost every week about how it seems that her coach has no idea what they are doing. I try to give her the politically correct response so as to not undermine her coach. I’m not coaching her anymore so I don’t want her listening to me and not her coach. However, when you see workouts like this, it makes it very difficult…

        These are the workouts that her coach gives her. This is what they are doing this week.

        Monday – 6 x 200 @ 100% with 5:00 rest
        Tuesday – 5 x 200m hills @ 85%
        Wednesday – 10 x block starts, then 100m run. 5 on curve, 5 on straightaway
        Thursday – 3 x 400 @ 100% with 8:00 rest
        Friday – 10 minute jog and stretch

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #106464

        Yeah well how about this for a collegiate jumper who i coach private…

        Her coach gave her this to do,

        Sat – meet
        Sun – rest
        Mon – 6×6 stride LJ, 8x 10 stride LJ + weights
        Tues – 8×6 stide TJ
        Wed – Full approach high jumps x10
        Thurs – Full approach LJ + weights
        Fri – warm up
        Sat- Meet

        Wow!

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        ex400 on #106466

        [quote author="Nick Newman" date="1300144712"]Many times coaches have athletes doing sessions that they shouldn’t be doing because their bodies aren’t recovered enough for it. But they have them doing becuase they don’t know how to adapt training around how the athlete feels.

        Changing a high intensity session to recovery day for a beat up athlete or reducing volume considerably for this day is far better than having them perform it as written.

        I agree completely. I have a former athlete that now competes collegiately for a lower level division 3 program. She writes me almost every week about how it seems that her coach has no idea what they are doing. I try to give her the politically correct response so as to not undermine her coach. I’m not coaching her anymore so I don’t want her listening to me and not her coach. However, when you see workouts like this, it makes it very difficult…

        These are the workouts that her coach gives her. This is what they are doing this week.

        Monday – 6 x 200 @ 100% with 5:00 rest
        Tuesday – 5 x 200m hills @ 85%
        Wednesday – 10 x block starts, then 100m run. 5 on curve, 5 on straightaway
        Thursday – 3 x 400 @ 100% with 8:00 rest
        Friday – 10 minute jog and stretch[/quote]

        I had a girl at 59.1. She went to a small college where workouts like this were common, except the volume was higher. That took her to 64.x and she quit the sport.

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        Jay Turner on #106488

        [quote author="Jay Turner" date="1300250751"][quote author="Nick Newman" date="1300144712"]Many times coaches have athletes doing sessions that they shouldn’t be doing because their bodies aren’t recovered enough for it. But they have them doing becuase they don’t know how to adapt training around how the athlete feels.

        Changing a high intensity session to recovery day for a beat up athlete or reducing volume considerably for this day is far better than having them perform it as written.

        I agree completely. I have a former athlete that now competes collegiately for a lower level division 3 program. She writes me almost every week about how it seems that her coach has no idea what they are doing. I try to give her the politically correct response so as to not undermine her coach. I’m not coaching her anymore so I don’t want her listening to me and not her coach. However, when you see workouts like this, it makes it very difficult…

        These are the workouts that her coach gives her. This is what they are doing this week.

        Monday – 6 x 200 @ 100% with 5:00 rest
        Tuesday – 5 x 200m hills @ 85%
        Wednesday – 10 x block starts, then 100m run. 5 on curve, 5 on straightaway
        Thursday – 3 x 400 @ 100% with 8:00 rest
        Friday – 10 minute jog and stretch[/quote]

        I had a girl at 59.1. She went to a small college where workouts like this were common, except the volume was higher. That took her to 64.x and she quit the sport.[/quote]Here’s what bothers me…or maybe I shouldn’t be so surprised.

        Her coach competed (as a thrower) at a very high level D1 school. I guess as I’m typing this, I realize that last sentence is probably irrelevant. Still, this coach gets a college job, albeit at a low level D3 program, and runs these athletes into the ground. My former athlete hasn’t come close to her performances when she ran for me in high school. She’s now a collegiate junior. This really bother’s me.

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        RussZHC on #106677

        Unfortunately, what Mike blogs about is sometimes just the beginning…to me, there is a very real danger of a well thought out procedure declining into randomness…and often the questioning of “what went wrong” only happens after the fact.

        IMO, if the athlete – coach relationship is what it can be, there should be no real reason to “skip” a planned session…down time as well as difficult times of the year (U exams as example) can and should be planned…it may lack some “fun” and spontaneity but it will also provide the desired results far more often.

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #106687

        Disagree…

        Being able to “plan” how to “skip” planned sessions and change them to fit many variables is one of the most important aspects of great coaching!

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        Jay Turner on #106720

        Disagree…

        Being able to “plan” how to “skip” planned sessions and change them to fit many variables is one of the most important aspects of great coaching!

        I THINK….though I could be wrong…..that’s what he was trying to say.

      • Nick Newman
        Participant
        Nick Newman on #106727

        lol oh…Well if that was the case then i’m sorry and I need to go back to school! ha

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        Eager on #106729

        [quote author="Jay Turner" date="1300250751"][quote author="Nick Newman" date="1300144712"]Many times coaches have athletes doing sessions that they shouldn’t be doing because their bodies aren’t recovered enough for it. But they have them doing becuase they don’t know how to adapt training around how the athlete feels.

        Changing a high intensity session to recovery day for a beat up athlete or reducing volume considerably for this day is far better than having them perform it as written.

        I agree completely. I have a former athlete that now competes collegiately for a lower level division 3 program. She writes me almost every week about how it seems that her coach has no idea what they are doing. I try to give her the politically correct response so as to not undermine her coach. I’m not coaching her anymore so I don’t want her listening to me and not her coach. However, when you see workouts like this, it makes it very difficult…

        These are the workouts that her coach gives her. This is what they are doing this week.

        Monday – 6 x 200 @ 100% with 5:00 rest
        Tuesday – 5 x 200m hills @ 85%
        Wednesday – 10 x block starts, then 100m run. 5 on curve, 5 on straightaway
        Thursday – 3 x 400 @ 100% with 8:00 rest
        Friday – 10 minute jog and stretch[/quote]

        I had a girl at 59.1. She went to a small college where workouts like this were common, except the volume was higher. That took her to 64.x and she quit the sport.[/quote]

        Good heavens! I could have written the above post myself!

        I had a 56.9 kid who can’t run under 60.0 now under exact same circumstances. I understand that some kids don’t perform as well immediately in college. Having been a D3 college coach (albeit jumps and multis, not sprints) I saw kids come in unprepared and not ready to communicate and commit, and often their good H.S. pr’s seemed almost fictional. A lot of the structure of high school, like eating and sleeping schedules, allows kids to perform at a high level, and among college frosh, that structure is removed and performances go down until they learn personal discipline. So I get the lowered (temporarily) performance levels that are common.

        However, I teach our kids to communicate with their college coaches, and they are certainly committed, but they are often ignored in favor of “THE workout”, (as if it’s written in stone,) which seems to never be individualized and functions more as a separator of talent than a developer of talent. Lactic interval after lactic interval for sprinters, or horizontal jumpers having to run a mile for time once a week in the GPP to “keep them honest”…whatever.

        So many college coaches, small or big, simply have enough talent that they don’t have to learn to decode the individual like we in high school do. I was lucky to be in a D3 program that, at our best, coached developmentally like high school, and, lo and behold, we got good results (lifetime PR’s) as a consequence.

        Now I’m in that same position as some of you, giving broad platitudes to kids who are heartbroken and confused because their college workouts are so obtuse and they are not performing well, yet I don’t want to be the jerk high school coach who questions the college program. I bit my tongue because I can’t really help, but I’m pissed. Agh!

        I know a ton of good high school coaches who feel the same!

      • Mike Young
        Keymaster
        Mike Young on #106837

        I think some of you are misinterpreting or misunderstanding the post and / or going off on completely different tangents. I’m not saying don’t make modifications or don’t train smart (see HERE[/url] for my thoughts on that). The average athlete who says or rationalizes that it’s ok to miss practice because “it’s just one day” is typically making a poor justification for being lazy or not prioritizing their time appropriately. And most often, “just one day” is never “just one day”….it’s a habit.

        ELITETRACK Founder

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        ex400 on #106842

        The average athlete who says or rationalizes that it’s ok to miss practice because “it’s just one day” is typically making a poor justification for being lazy or not prioritizing their time appropriately. And most often, “just one day” is never “just one day”….it’s a habit.

        Absolutely right, as almost all HS (and probably many college) coaches know all too well.
        On the other hand, athletes sometimes take days off (or fake injuries or illness) as their only defense against idiotic programs that are killing them.

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        RussZHC on #106858

        Nick: chalk it up to poor phrasing on my part…I largely echo you statements though I would also say, I think some sort of restriction is needed (also a poor choice of word but not sure of the one to convey exact meaning) on how often what is planned gets tweaked. To me its this deterioration into randomness that ends up being well away from the original plan that I find troublesome, when it happens.

        I agree 100% being able to adapt as needed is a great part of the coaching “art” but while slight adjustments as needed are one thing, whole sale change on a whim or momentary perceived need is another. I guess what I mean is changing from say 2x(3×30) to (3×30)+ (4×20) is an “adjustment”, skipping a block session because you are sore one week and then reducing the number in half the next time it comes up in the “rotation” (which may or may not be 7 to 10 days away) can, IMO, be the thin edge so to speak, but with good planning is less likely to happen. Paraphrasing a later post, the real danger is athletes being so beat up, especially as a group, that they skip planned sessions and a coach not figuring out the connection.
        And yes, I agree if rest is needed to take it, more or less carte blanche, even if it means a canceled session but my point there would be, good longer term planning should be able to minimize that need.

        My experience has also been that at certain times of the year 2-a-day sessions are an occurrence and I believe with good planning and adaptation it can certainly work but just the opposite happens with poor general planning, you end up with a lot of skipped sessions w a prime reason being, “I already trained once today” and from that, if it continues even a short time, chunks of expected training can be lost.

        By way of another example, take a given lift.
        If during a planned session that includes that action, said lift is skipped or the need to skip it is expressed, the first question should be why.
        And to me there is a big difference between two of the most likely answers…”I am too tired” and “I can’t do it”.
        For the first it initially needs to be figured out if it is a valid complaint or laziness. If the former, why? and adjust moving forward.
        For the second the “can’t” could be because of injury or related to tiredness [here, to me, is where your adaptation for that session comes into play] but could also, conceivably, be some sort of inability to perform the lifting action and if viewed as “just one time” may never be properly learned and potentially leave a gap in development.

        From my experience, sorry to say, “…it’s just one day…” seldom seems to be just one. Which could be another way to look at the issue, how often do those “just one” happen? I mean at some point, its a pattern.
        I would also be of the opinion the skipping of planned sessions happens more than would be expected by the very good athletes IMO because there, there can be difficulty with athletes taking time off when they should (as the plan should provide) with the result is the “one day” frequently happens with the worse possible timing, almost forced due to need…something that could likely have been avoided.

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        bap0022587 on #106965

        Being a coach at a smaller Division III College, I’ve seen most of scenarios played out in earlier posts. Our staff emphasizes that academics take priority over track and field, but we also emphasize that it is not good habit to constantly miss practice because someone was unable to get studying and homework done in their free time earlier that day. Many times excuses like this can be avoided if better decisions are made during the day and on the weekends. Throwing out the example workouts that were given (which I agree were much less than is to be desired), there are many other factors that go into transition from high school to college. Many kids run into problems because they use their free time during the day to nap, watch TV, or play video games, when they could be getting studying done. This then causes them to be up half the night working on their studies. The same goes for weekends, many kids in high school don’t have the ability to “go out”, in college this shows up much more. Kids don’t understand why they aren’t performing up to their potential; most of it can be traced back to what they do in their free time. I agree that the sample workouts were not good by any stretch, but in a sound program, there are still kids that will struggle because they are unable to adapt to the change in lifestyle and lack of structure in a college environment. Missed workouts and decisions that cause kids to minimize the effects of the performed workouts become a huge problem.

        That is my take from the smaller college side of things.

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