Barry, Barry, Barry…

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    flow on #65041

    i´m not making fun of him,  i´m just loosing my respect for him as a coach because of his statements. which is sad.

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    kangeetah on #65042

    Thank you for your reply jumpman.  The more vertical force/less ground contact time concept finally clicked for me.  I also just wasn't understanding that.  Also, yes, if he's just working with high schoolers, some simple heavy deadlifts could do them some good. 

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    donkey on #65043

    Hi,

    I'm really not an internet posting person, but I like sports and a friend pointed out the elite track site and this whole training debate to me.  It seems that even though this is a track site, that the best way to train for running fast applies to just about all sports.  So, Iâ??m thinking that this is pretty big deal.

    Iâ??m kinda surprised that the best way to train isnâ??t all worked out – like the how to treat high blood pressure, take steroids or design Lance Armstrongâ??s bikeâ?¦ :smilegrin:

    Anyway, Iâ??ve always done a lot of sports and did ok in my science classes (I got 3rd place in a science fair once), but Iâ??m not really a physics expert.  So, Iâ??m glad that someone with Mikeâ??s education and expertise is here to moderate the forum and keep the science honest (and the force vectors straight!).

    Force vectors aside, I didnâ??t really get all the stuff Barry Barry Barry went on and on about.  Unfortunately, his attitude and snippy know it all style were hard to miss….  The only thing I really got was that he thinks heavy deadlifts make athletes get faster.

    I did find jumpmanâ??s note interesting and constructive.  I also read the 7 pages and, after all that, I wasn't really wasnâ??t sure practically of the right answers.  The need to run in the right way to go fast seems pretty basic, but the strength training part was less clear.

    I was wondering if Mike could tell us how athletes who want to get faster should lift weights for speed?  Should they do the deadlifts or would other lifts work better for getting faster?

    Thanks Mike

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #65044

    The thing that I find most interesting is that he insists on antagonizing alternative viewpoints despite anecdotal and scientific evidence contrary to his beliefs. Perhaps the best test of the validity of his beliefs is that three highly accomplished and respected coaches (Vern Gambetta, Charlie Francis, and Bobby Kersee) who have VERY different (and in many cases combatively opposite) viewpoints on training ALL AGREE THAT BARRY IS WRONG IN HIS MAJOR SELLING POINTS (that technique doesn't matter at all, that there's only one way to develop speed optimally, etc.).

    ELITETRACK Founder

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #65045

    Force vectors aside, I didnâ??t really get all the stuff Barry Barry Barry went on and on about.  Unfortunately, his attitude and snippy know it all style were hard to miss….  The only thing I really got was that he thinks heavy deadlifts make athletes get faster.

    He's also very anti -any technical development for sprinting.

    I was wondering if Mike could tell us how athletes who want to get faster should lift weights for speed?  Should they do the deadlifts or would other lifts work better for getting faster?

    Deadlifts are fine but in my opinion they shouldn't be the ONLY lift. In fact, they wouldn't even be the primary lift. I rarely if ever use deadlifts in my program. There's nothing really wrong with the movement but I just think there are better options. A general outline of my views on weight training for speed can be found in the FAQ section as well as in the Strength at LSU thread in the Classics section of the forum.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    utfootball4 on #65046

    [quote author="donkey" date="1181185327"]
    Force vectors aside, I didn’t really get all the stuff Barry Barry Barry went on and on about.  Unfortunately, his attitude and snippy know it all style were hard to miss….  The only thing I really got was that he thinks heavy deadlifts make athletes get faster.

    He's also very anti -any technical development for sprinting.

    I was wondering if Mike could tell us how athletes who want to get faster should lift weights for speed?  Should they do the deadlifts or would other lifts work better for getting faster?

    Deadlifts are fine but in my opinion they shouldn't be the ONLY lift. In fact, they wouldn't even be the primary lift. I rarely if ever use deadlifts in my program. There's nothing really wrong with the movement but I just think there are better options. A general outline of my views on weight training for speed can be found in the FAQ section as well as in the Strength at LSU thread in the Classics section of the forum.
    [/quote]

    im surprise you dont like dl more since you learned under coach reeves.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #65047

    When I worked under Reeve, he NEVER used them as the primary strength builder. He did lots of clean pulls (which on the surface look similar but are quite different in both technique and execution / bar speed) but rarely if ever dead lifted.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the exercise is a good one. Personally though, I consider it relatively similar to OLs and I'd rather spend my time and energy OLing.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    utfootball4 on #65048

    When I worked under Reeve, he NEVER used them as the primary strength builder. He did lots of clean pulls (which on the surface look similar but are quite different in both technique and execution / bar speed) but rarely if ever dead lifted.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the exercise is a good one. Personally though, I consider it relatively similar to OLs and I'd rather spend my time and energy OLing.

    reeves doesnt do cp anymore, he uses the dl and calls it the best total body strength lift.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #65049

    I just checked over at WFU and Reeve still uses clean pulls along with dead lifts. I believe dead lifts are preferred, but clean pulls are still incorporated as an alternative to the dead lifts.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    utfootball4 on #65050

    I just checked over at WFU and Reeve still uses clean pulls along with dead lifts. I believe dead lifts are preferred, but clean pulls are still incorporated as an alternative to the dead lifts.

    he must only use them for a couple weeks bc these are the drills they did this winter:

    Monday                     Wednesday                   Friday
    1. Power Clean         1. Hang Clean            1. Power C&J
    2. Deadlift                 2. One Arm Bench     2. Standing Press
    3. Bench                    3. One Arm Row        3. Chins
    4. Bent Rows            4. Lunge                      4. Front Squat
    5. Back squat           5. Tuck Jumps             5. Box Jumps
    6. Vertical Jumps     6. Rdls                          6. Ball Leg Curls
    7. Chins-n-Dips       7. Chins-n-Dips           7. Dips-n-Curls
    8. Pushups-n-Abs    8. Bumper Pushups   8. Pushups-n-Abs             

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #65051

    I just received their summer workout plan and DLs are only used once per week (out of 4 workout days). The general format is essentially the same as what you layed out.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    utfootball4 on #65052

    I just received their summer workout plan and DLs are only used once per week (out of 4 workout days). The general format is essentially the same as what you layed out.

    this was there summer workout, is it similar to what you have?

    Monday                 Tuesday                    Wednesday          Thursday
    Warmup                 Warmup                    Warmup              Warmup
      15 mins.                15 mins.                    15 mins.              15 mins.
    Power Clean        Power C&J                  Deadlift              Hang Clean
    Front Squat             Bench                         Lunge         One Arm Bench
    Vertical Jumps       Bent Rows                Tuck Jumps  One Arm Rows
    Rdls                       Chins-n-Dips          Ball Leg Curls     Chins-n-Dips
    30 mins                   30 mins.                      30 mins.             30 mins.
    ———————————————————————————–   
    Warmup                 Warmup                    Warmup              Warmup
    15 mins.                15 mins.                    15 mins.                15 mins.
    Agility                   Speed                        Agility                  Speed
    30 mins.                   30 mins.                 30 mins.                30 mins

    Mike Young
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    Mike Young on #65053

    Yeah. That's pretty much exactly what I have.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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    Martijn de Lange on #107707

    Interesting view from Allyson herself on her high school program:
    “When I was in high school I leg pressed 700lbs and deadlifted like 245lbs or something. It ended up not being so great on my body. I was injured a couple of times though. Now I have a little different weight regimen but still pretty strong.”

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