400m (again) LA capacity vs. tolerance

Posted In: The Classics

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    400stud on #23766

    The way I'm doing it, as mike knows and seems to deem OK, is this…

    Int. Tempo –> Depletion Runs –> Split Runs –> SE2 –> SE1/Speed Endurance

    Acc. Dev. –> MaxV –> Short Speed (40-60m reps…possibly up to 80m)

    Int. Tempo – 6 weeks (GPP)
    Depletion Runs (250/60sec/4×60…ex) – 4 weeks (1st 1/2 of SPP)
    Split Runs – 4 weeks (2nd 1/2 of SPP)
    SE2 – 4 weeks (1st 1/2 of Pre-Comp.)
    SE1/Speed Endurance – Rest of Season

    Acc. Dev. – 6 weeks (GPP)
    MaxV – 8 weeks (1x a week for 4 weeks and then 2x's a week for 4 weeks)
    Short Speed – Mixed/Alternated with maxV rest of season

    I was curious as to whether, for 4 weeks, I should just do short speed 2x's a week and then, starting with the 5th Meso (2nd 1/2 of Pre-Comp.) alternate/mix MaxV and Short Speed Sessions throughout each micro?

    Anyone's thoughts on my setup or answer to my question?

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    magico on #23767

    i like to mix up the short speed and vmax work. its not as though the short speed work is going to play less of a role in your competetitions so why not continue to use it in training.

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    QUIKAZHELL on #23768

    I mix it somewhat too. At the end of my special prep right now i have a day of accell work up where i run 30's and 60's. The 60 meter Runs are both accell and max velocity work. another day i do special endurance 2 which right now is 1×350 and 1×300 with full rest and my other day i do 4-6 flying 30's. i also do hurdle hops on both accel and max velocity days usually between 20-40 ground contacts.
    Then later this seaosn when i start competiton i will combine Speed endurance and Special endurance and have the other day dedicated to Accel and Max velocity work. My Speed/Special day may be something like 300 200 150 150 and my other day may be something like 4×30 from blocks, 3xflying 30's, and 1×60 from a 3 point start

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    rong on #23769

    KT,

    Perhaps you could tell us how Toney Wells would train the 400m runner?

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    Kebba Tolbert on #23770

    from the tapes it and a few conversations it seems like he would follow the speed power method. But mainly the endurance component comes from "strength endurance" work (i.e., hills and long bounding) in the prep phases and very fast runs near race distance (2-3 x 300m, or 2 x 450. or 2-3 x 350m) later in the year.

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    trackrat495 on #23771

    In '95 he mentioned 3-5 x 150's at near max with near full recovery. But as Keba said, he tends to keep his main focus on the max speed. He loved the idea of having a girl come through the first 200 in 24 if she had a 200 PR of 22. He believed that she could do this pretty easily. The competition would struggle though since they were trying to keep up with her, especially if their 200 PR was in the 24 second range.

    He used this example with Carla Estes back in '96 after she'd won USATF Jr's. Her first 200 split was faster than the 200m PR of everyone else in the race. It was over at 225 as the rest of the field tried to survive.

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #23772

    If one is limited on a therapy budget then remember that submaximal work with focus on fitness vs Top Speed will work. My programs are now changing due to therapy restraints.

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    Kebba Tolbert on #23773

    so are you saying that with lack of therapy (which is the case in most "real word" situations) you would opt for tempo over speed work?

    ….. the heresy

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    rong on #23774

    All this debate about speed vs. tempo. I think the answer is simply BOTH. Obviously there must be some compromises, but why can't you expect to have it ALL?

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    Kebba Tolbert on #23775

    because at certain training volumes and at certain times of the year something has to give… unless you have super supplements:roll:

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    Todd Lane on #23776

    Ron and I have discussed this….

    The 400 athlete that is a flyer (i.e. for college women can run 3.15 for 30m) fly versus athlete that is not a flyer (i.e. 3.40 for 30m), do they need to be trained differently? if so how?

    Carl Valle
    Participant
    Carl Valle on #23777

    The point is that specific patterns and volumes must be optimized based on the athletes responses….not on an artificial mesocycle with fancy colors. What is ideal and what you can do is not the same. If you run the halls of a school during indoor…I would not do barefoot running as a way to increase intramuscular caprilization.

    Mike Young
    Keymaster
    Mike Young on #23778

    [i]Originally posted by todd[/i]
    Ron and I have discussed this….

    The 400 athlete that is a flyer (i.e. for college women can run 3.15 for 30m) fly versus athlete that is not a flyer (i.e. 3.40 for 30m), do they need to be trained differently? if so how?

    Assuming the two athletes in question are achieving the same end result (400m time) and the coach has the time and ability to do it, then yes, I think that the best results would come from a more individualized training plan. The question however would be whether to focus training on the athlete's strengths or their weaknesses. I flip flop on this all the time but I would tend to think you'd want to develop the speed endurance of the "flyer" because she already has adequate top end speed to run very fast. The "non-flyer" may need to focus more on the development of her top end speed as her 400m time would indicate that she already has very good speed endurance because of the fact that she can maintain a high percentage of her (albiet lower) top end speed for a greater period of time.

    ELITETRACK Founder

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