Periodization


  • Participant
    comando-joe on #17780

    Edited question.

    Why do a lot of people periodize the way they do, eg start the year as a bodybuilder in the gym and doing alot of enurance at the track?

    Some of the top weightlifters do not periodize and they get it right in competiton. I dont understand it, we do a lot general things in off season that make us worse at our events (GPP). In this time we put on weight, have more endurance etc, but these qualities are pretty much gone when we are mid-season because they are useless for a power/speed event.

    So why not do more intense weights in the winter, getting stronger without adding any weight, from the get-go? Why not do more sprints instead of loads and loads of tempo runs?


    Participant
    comando-joe on #110184

    ?


    Participant
    Mccabe on #110185

    Work capacity.


    Participant
    comando-joe on #110186

    Work capacity.

    For you its important doing 400’s, but for a jumper, or thrower, 60m sprinter? The only elite guys training ive seen is the few months Edwards put up, and it doesn’t look like there’s any donkey work in there like ive seen from every sub-elite guy.


    Participant
    burkhalter on #110187

    My assumption is you have to have somewhere to intensify from. Even the Bulgarians intensify and reduce volume they just don’t do as dramatically as others.


    Participant
    Mccabe on #110188

    I thought for jumping and throwing it was for preparing the body for the impacts/stresses/loading whatever you want to call it. That is only my assumption though.


    Participant
    star61 on #110190

    Also, while some training results, such as strength and power via lifting in the gym, may prepare you, and even better enable you to perform, the actual training means themselves interfere with other important training means more specific to your event. You have to ‘periodize’ those training means out of your training to accomodate more specific training means into your plan.


    Participant
    Josh Hurlebaus on #110191

    Also, just because it doesn’t seem specific that doesn’t mean there aren’t desirable training adaptations that happen from said training that when carried over to more specific work will yield better results than just the specific work alone.


    Participant
    comando-joe on #110192

    Also, while some training results, such as strength and power via lifting in the gym, may prepare you, and even better enable you to perform, the actual training means themselves interfere with other important training means more specific to your event. You have to ‘periodize’ those training means out of your training to accomodate more specific training means into your plan.

    Take my case, my strength will only now go up if i put on some muscle. Im already as big as i would like to be. I would guess quite a few guys are in the same boat as me.

    Why not go right to the more specific things and have much more time to prepare? Would most people break down without the general prep before this?


    Participant
    Mccabe on #110194

    There is the peaking issue also.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #110196

    Joe,

    So let’s say you jump from a full approach, you do fly sprints, you clean singles and doubles @ 90% of your max, do you depth jumps from high heights, you do speed bounding etc etc ALL from day 1 of the training. What do you think will happen to the athlete by indoor competitions and/or outdoor competition time?


    Participant
    comando-joe on #110197

    Joe,

    So let’s say you jump from a full approach, you do fly sprints, you clean singles and doubles @ 90% of your max, do you depth jumps from high heights, you do speed bounding etc etc ALL from day 1 of the training. What do you think will happen to the athlete by indoor competitions and/or outdoor competition time?

    I guess you wouldnt make it to a competiton, or you would break records if you could hang on? How do you coach yourself Nick? I change my mind/program every other week.

    Nick Newman
    Participant
    Nick Newman on #110198

    Joe, i’ve studied this subject for 10 years…all of my education is about sport performance and athletic development. Plus i’ve contacted virtually every major jumps coaches in the world. AND, there’s a lot I still don’t know and i learn something new everyday.

    There is a reason most athletes are not coaches too.


    Participant
    rcfan2 on #110199

    If I understand Joe’s original question…and could take the liberty to re-phrase it…

    Why do a lot of people periodize the way they do, eg start the year as a bodybuilder in the gym and doing a lot of en(d)urance at the track

    In two parts….

    Why is there emphasis on hypertrophy type weight lifting (aka “bodybuilding”) vs. focusing more on strength and power (speed/strength) development during the pre-season/general prep? With the concern of building unwanted muscle/mass with higher reps/lower weights as well as slower bar movements. Assuming the traditional “Hypertrophy” > “Strength” > “Power” progression.

    and…

    Why is there often so much emphasis on long, slow aerobic running (assuming we’re talking short sprinters/hurdlers and other speed/power athletes) during this training phase as well?

    And that traditional answer to both of these is “building a base” (and Dan Pfaff would reply “a base of what?).

    I don’t know that Joe is questioning the need for progressive overload type training – but seems to be questioning why the training appears to be so non-specific and in some ways counter-indicated (building unwanted body mass, emphasis placed on non-event specific energy systems, bio-motor abilities, etc.).

    Often it can appear that it’s a period of de-training as there is often little emphasis on the event specific qualities (speed, power, nervous system/coordination, etc.).

    I’ve heard interviews (available on the Canadian Athletics Coaching Centre[/url] website) where Loren Seagrave questions the use of hypertrophy type weight training for sprinters (because of where it falls on the force/velocity curve) as well as Vince Anderson questioning the wisdom (I think he uses the term “insane”) that fall/pre-season training has to start with slow, jogging, runs, etc. He claims he introduces speed (posture, mechanics, accelerations) from day one – with the key that intensity is high – but volume and density are low (and progresses from there throughout the season).

    Not sure that helps…


    Participant
    comando-joe on #110200

    rcfan2 – Thanks, that deffinately helps. But, how do you progress if you are doing speed from day 1?

    I re-read Edwards program. Example here, 85kg p.clean 3×6. 2-3 weeks later he does 4×4 with 110. This makes me think he had a lot to spare and could have been working purely on bar speed instead of general conditioning.

    I did a session last week, 120×8 p.clean. I just thought, what am i doing this for?

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